Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 09:54:02 -0700
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Engine oil
In-Reply-To: <A0E17772-F2FA-4101-86A9-E7A04211C45C@eoni.com>
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Ya ~ What Jim said +
In your research you should put Valvoline on your list ( I don't work
for them ~ Just like their stuff )
2 main points
1. Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/
phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the
motor oil where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the
catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique
additive across its entire line of passenger car motor oils including
SynPower -- the only synthetic oil that offers this additive.
2. The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car
enthusiasts is actually short for Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or
ZDDP. Its primary role is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between
engine parts by forming a protective film. Despite being referred to
as zinc, this additive actually contains zinc and phosphorus, with
phosphorus performing the anti-wear function in the motor oil with zinc.
Links to & excerpts from
http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/full-synthetic-motor-oil/
15. How does Valvoline's SynPower formula protect against wear?
SynPower full synthetic motor oil is formulated with a balance of high
quality ingredients such as detergents, dispersants, antioxidants,
friction modifiers, anti-wear additives and premium base oils that
work together to provide exceptional protection against engine stress
and wear.
Valvoline's proprietary formulation includes special anti-wear
chemistry. Valvoline's low impact ZDDP allows phosphorus in the anti-
wear additive to stay in the oil longer than other leading synthetic
motor oils. Phosphorous bonds to metal parts in the engine to form a
"sacrificial" layer that helps protect against friction and metal wear
in the engine.
SynPower uses premium detergents and dispersants that protect
against deposits and sludge to keep engines clean. SynPower's premium
full synthetic base oils and additives hold up to extreme temperatures
to provide increased protection for your engine.
http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/
2. What is motor oil with zinc?
The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car
enthusiasts is actually short for Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or
ZDDP. Its primary role is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between
engine parts by forming a protective film. Despite being referred to
as zinc, this additive actually contains zinc and phosphorus, with
phosphorus performing the anti-wear function in the motor oil with zinc.
3. Why is it important to have the zinc/phosphorus levels in motor oil
changed?
With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers
have tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one
of several factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute
(API) sets standards for motor oil with zinc. The current API standard
is SM which replaced the previous SL classification. Because
phosphorus can poison a vehicle's emission system, the level of zinc
is lower for current motor oil.
4. What is the controversy surrounding the amount of zinc in motor oil?
Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower
levels of zinc in SM motor oil is causing excessive wear in older
style push-rod and flat-tappet engines. This is despite the fact that
all new motor oil classifications are intended to be backward
compatible. This has resulted in the widely accepted belief that
modern motor oil is not adequate to protect older engines.
5. What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:
1. Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor
oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing
and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style
push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in
both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30,
straight 30, straight 40, and straight 60.
2. Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/
phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the
motor oil where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the
catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique
additive across its entire line of passenger car motor oils including
SynPower -- the only synthetic oil that offers this additive.
6. Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or "Not Street Legal" racing oil?
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent of zinc and .12 percent
of phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil
which contains .14 percent of zinc and .13 percent of phosphorus.
On 3 Nov , 2012, at 7:03 PM, Jim Arnott wrote:
> Dave, et al;
>
> The Internet consensus seems to be that the bobistheoilguy website is
> the 'resident expert' on automobile lubrication. I do not wish to get
> into a long drawn out discussion rehashing information that is freely
> available. I have read the comments regarding ZDDP and modern motor
> oils on the aforementioned website as well as various other sites
> (including camshaft grinders such as Bruce Crower and Dave
> Schneider.) I have made, what is to me, an educated decision to use a
> motor oil with the highest concentration of ZDDP in MY vehicles. You
> are more than welcome to research the subject as fully as you desire
> and draw your own conclusions.
>
> < http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/> is a great place to
> start then Google, "When Good Cams Go Bad" for contradicting
> information.
>
> Spend an evening doing the research and as I said, draw your own
> conclusions. (BTW & IIRC, Bob is the Oil Guy recommends SAE 0W30 oil
> as it flows well cold. Not in any vehicle I own, thank you.)
>
> Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> Right knows no boundaries and justice no frontiers.
> --Learned Hand
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>
>> Jim and others, my understanding is that the ZDDP concentration in
>> modern oils is the same as it was in the 1950s (about 600 ppm), when
>> it was introduced to protect the valve and tappet design then
>> current. The concentration was increased later for a different
>> reason, having to do with detergent properties of oil. Since
>> catalytic converters have been required, the ZDDP concentration has
>> been dropping to keep the converter functioning for 150k miles, but
>> it is still adequate, with other changes in oil formulations, to
>> protect the valves in older vehicles. In fact, if I am not
>> mistaken, I got that information from the same GM author that your
>> citation references.
>>
>> I am stating this from memory, rather than from reviewing the
>> original report I read right now, but I do think I am remembering
>> correctly. The particular link you provided only gives data on
>> oils, but the report I read (same author) discusses backwards
>> compatibility of "star burst" oils (the modern service rated oils
>> with the starburst symbol like), and the testing and results for oil
>> service ratings
>>
>> Basically, the report referred to the "myth" that the ZDDP levels in
>> modern oils are too low to protect older engines.
>>
>> Correct me if I am wrong. If so, I hope you will explain more
>> completely than I have. mcneely
>>
>> ---- Jim Arnott <jrasite@EONI.COM> wrote:
>>> Jack,
>>>
>>> 5W40 Rotella T6 synthetic. That big Arkansas box store. $20/gal. And
>>> no.... the oil specified in the '84 owner's manual is no longer
>>> manufactured. As engines have moved away from a flat tappet design,
>>> manufacturers have changed the oil specifications. Typically
>>> removing
>>> the zinc (ZDDP) necessary for reduced cam wear in our engines.
>>> Diesel
>>> spec oils have the maximum in currently produced lubricating oil.
>>> Rotella T6 synthetic has the highest concentration of all current
>>> mass-
>>> produced motor oils.
>>>
>>> < http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2330040#Post2330040
>>>>
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates
>>> profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love.
>>> --Lao Tzu
>>>
>>> On Nov 2, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll need to bust out the owner's manual to see what they recommend
>>>> for
>>>> the Cold Season. Nights down to mid-teens (F), days up to 40s. Is
>>>> this
>>>> ca. 1984 manual still my guide to all things engine oil?
>>>> --
>>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
>>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>>>> Bend, Ore.
>>
>> --
>> David McNeely
