Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:59:52 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: loose rear axle nut
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds193DD17348CA84393DDF80A0560@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
well then ..
to the original poster ..
how nicely does your wheel flange/hub fit on the splines of the stub
axle ??
it should be a pretty precise smooth fit , no slop especially.
If those splines are showing much wear ( quite unusual in m experience
on vanagons ) ...
you sould at least try another good used flange/hub.
I've never seen it on a vanagon ..
but on old Buses back in the day ...the splines were in the brake drum ..
having those splines stripped out from running with the big nut not
tight enough was fairly common even.
Seen that at least half a dozen times. The van won't move when that
happens ..
as both rear wheels have to have drive for the van to go .....
Many a time, it was pull both rear hubcaps ..".oh look at that ..the
axle on one side is just spinning in the striped out drum splines."
so check how nicely your flange fits on the splines of the stub axle. I
don't find bad ones on vanagons ..
but if yours ran loose ...
and if it is worn there ....you sure want to know about it now.
scott
On 11/18/2012 7:23 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> John,
> The bearing spacer and hub should not wear at all. I also have not seen the
> nut bottom on the threads except when there is some real damage. The fact
> that you were able to hear noises and the cotter pin sheared off indicates
> the splines-bore of the flanged hub is worn and it is also possible the axle
> shaft splines are shot also. As such you are now relying only the friction
> of the nut face and the outer bearing inner race, (say that 5 times fast).
> Anyway at some point the failure will recur. At best the splines will
> completely strip out and just leave you stranded. If an automatic keep in
> mind that this type of failure also means using "Park" will not keep the
> vehicle in place so be sure the handbrake works for this day. At worst the
> axle or hub can fail allowing for a wheel separation. I have only seen one
> of these shafts break once and I heard the results were quite spectacular.
> The body damage on the van alone from the tire working out of the wheel well
> more than offsets the cost of fixing this right.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> John Goubeaux
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:43 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: loose rear axle nut
>
> Guys,
>
> Thanks for all the advice on the rear hub maintenance. I found my 1
> 13/16 socket and along with a breaker bar and a length of pipe re-torqued
> the rear axle nut ( I got another "notch" out of it) replaced the cotter
> pin with a new one and the noise I was hearing has
> gone away ! I will, however , keep an eye on the hub and consider
> pulling the whole assembly apart when I have more time and inspecting as
> well as likely just replacing the bearings . Maybe when I do the CV joints ?
>
> Someone pointed out that IF the spacer wears the nut will eventually bottom
> out ( not have any more threads to tighten on) and not achieve any more
> purchase on the hub BUT as far as I can see there is still the same amount
> of threads exposed on both axles, eg each side of the car, so I am thinking
> that this axle nut was just not torqued enough originally and I am in good
> shape as far as wear goes
>
> -john
>
>
> On 11/15/2012 1:01 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> Not many people have an impact gun that will produce that much torque.
>> You would need one that claims peak torque of something like 900 ft lbs.
>>
>> and no one has a 360 ft lb torque wrench unless they work on 18
>> Wheeler Trucks or Tanksor something like that.
>>
>> just the good ole serious breaker bar ( a half inch swivel head one is
>> way weak and won't cut it at all really )...
>> need like 3/4 inch drive,
>> and a good cheater bar pipe.
>>
>> and that still will not get some nuts off . Not even with a 160 lb
>> person standing on the end of a 4 foot bar.
>>
>> Then I heat 'em with a torch.
>> and even that won't always get them off. Twice I've had to cut the nut
>> away with a cutting torch ( which can be done without hurting the stub
>> axle if you're careful ) .
>>
>> just do careful good work.
>> S.
>>
>>
>> On 11/15/2012 10:55 AM, Mike B wrote:
>>> NEVER tighten your axle nut with an impact driver!
>>> 1.) You can never be sure of the exact torque.
>>> 2.) You can strip the threads.
>>>
>>> ONLY use a proper torque wrench and manually apply the force to
>>> tighten it. If none is available, use a 3/4" drive 46mm socket and
>>> breaker bar with a cheater pipe that fits over the bar. Foot/ pounds
>>> is calculated by so many pounds applied at so many feet from the
>>> fastener; so my 225 lb. body standing (NOT jumping!) on the spot on a
>>> bar that's 2 feet from the center of the axle nut will be applying
>>> 450 ft/lbs of torque to the nut. (or your 150 lb body standing 3
>>> feet out will apply 450 ft/lbs.; so weight X distance = torque
>>> applied) , this simple method has worked for me for over 30 years
>>> with no fancy torque wrenches or impact guns. I've broken many 1/2"
>>> drive ratchets and breaker bars doing Beetle 36mm axle nuts to 235
>>> ft/lbs and bought 3/4" drive stuff a couple of years ago. Craftsman
>>> and Snap-On have always replaced them under warrantee, even though I
>>> kept breaking them for years. Also, NEVER back off this torque to
>>> align the cotter-pin holes, ALWAYS tighten them further to line it up
> with the next hole.
>>> You will likely find that it takes a LOT more torque to break them
>>> loose, and you can use an impact driver to loosen them or an axle-nut
>>> beater tool, but some folks think that this damages your axle bearings.
>>> I never had this happen to me, but YMMV.
>>>
>>> Mike B.
>>>
>>> On 11/15/2012 12:45 PM, Stuart MacMillan wrote:
>>>> Yes, replace all of the parts! This is what can happen if a rear
>>>> wheel
>>>> falls off at 65 mph (FF to 1:34):
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGKlWqSadlQ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Last time I did this job I rented a 3/4 drive electric impact driver
>>>> and bought a socket.
>>>>
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of Jeff Lincoln
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:25 AM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: loose rear axle nut
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> Listen to these guys!!!! I recently had to replace my rear wheel
>>>> bearings - when I put everything back together I must not have
>>>> gotten that nut to the proper torque. Everything seemed fine for a
>>>> while and then I started to hear rumbling while on a trip. We were 3
>>>> hours from home when I stopped to check it and saw that one side of
>>>> the cotter pin had been sheared off!!!!
>>>> That nut was loose as hell. We got some help and did the best we
>>>> could and litterally limped home.
>>>>
>>>> The bearings I had just put in looked good still but I replaced
>>>> tyhem anyway
>>>> - along with the hub and stub.
>>>>
>>>> When you go to put that all back together you might think 360 ft lbs
>>>> is over kill but it is not. I wasn't smart enough to figure out the
>>>> math of my weight and how long of a breaker I needed. So I just
>>>> borrowd a super heavy duty torque wrench from a friend. It went up
>>>> to 450 or 600 ft lbs or something like that. I tell you when I got
>>>> the wrench to 360 it was still a way before I hit the next cotter
>>>> pin slot - I don't remember exactly but I was over 380 ft lbs by the
>>>> time I got to that next slot.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>> '85 GL (Gertie)
>>>> '78 Bus (Melissa) Patty's Bus
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