Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:08:10 -0600
Reply-To: JRodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: JRodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fluids Analysis!
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds2C243AAA99AF409BA5ECCA0440@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dennis,
It's been a long week, and now it's Frydaye - time for the follies - and
then you post this! I got a real laugh from it. It sounds very much like
a discussion about getting a medical exam - having ones fluids analyzed
to keep something (us) running and keeping that cost(medical costs)
down, and dealing with good mechanics(very cool experienced doctors) and
then those mechanics not so experienced( newbie doctors still learning
the ropes). And then there is the using of the fluids analysis as a
predictive tool ( heading off high cholesterol, plaque, etc.) and
avoiding surprises and identifying future problems looming (a tumor not
yet expressed) and using this a a guide to evaluate maintenance
procedures (exercise, dental, etc) - the list goes on.
I could not help but laugh at this. It brought comedic relief that was
much needed after a stress laden week.
Thanks a lot, buddy!
John Rodgers
On 12/7/2012 5:10 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> One thing interesting with this group is the difference in perspectives. We
> have folks that just want to keep something running to folks where cost is
> not an issue along with folks that want the best but at as little cost as
> possible. We have experienced mechanics and then those that become
> experienced sometimes the hard way. And then most of us are somewhere in
> between.
>
>
>
> Fluids analysis cab offer benefits far beyond "extending" change intervals.
> Properly used this "predictive" tool can be used to discover or identify
> potential problems to reduce or avoid surprises or helping to evaluate the
> value of maintenance procedures or to even predict or extended equipment
> life. However one should not overlook the value of extending change
> intervals even without synthetic or specialized fluids (oil or antifreeze).
>
>
>
> While 5 quarts of oil and a filter seem like a small price consider that
> there are some 109 Million commercial and 250 million passenger vehicles on
> US roads. Many trucks hold 10 gallons or more engine oil along with gear
> oils and coolant. Most cars hold 5 quarts or more. Now think of the benefits
> if we can eliminate just one oil change/year for just the passenger cars.
> 312 million gallons/year saved and eliminated from our waste stream! With
> even cheap oils pushing $4/quart we are looking $1.2 billion. That is why so
> many forces sell us on the 3,000 mile oil change. Years ago that was
> necessary. Thanks to today's lubricant technology and engine/fuel delivery
> designs these short change intervals are usually not needed. There are
> situations though where things can go wrong and fluid replacement needs to
> be done now!
>
>
>
> To get the best value from fluids analysis you need a regular program and to
> establish trends. Like testing for compression or oil pressure doing it at
> the time of trouble simply helps to conclude a failure. Knowing what is
> normal when the engine is new and healthy provides the baseline for which
> future measurements can be compared.
>
>
>
> As for justifying cost consider the following: Except for mechanical parts
> that brake from a defect or overload most all engine or transmission
> failures are the result of a fluid failure. That thrown rod was fluid
> failure. That burned piston, fluid (yes fuel) failure. Rings broken or stuck
> to the pistons were a fluid failure. Those blue bearings in the transmission
> were also fluid failure. The failures could be lack of supply, overheated
> losing viscosity, contaminated, or broken down enough to no longer work. The
> point is something in the fluid or system failed causing the breakdown.
> Fluids analysis can help to find these issues and take corrective or
> preventative actions.
>
>
>
> Working in industry I have been familiar with oil analysis for many years.
> When I acquired my Diesel motorhome in 2004 the local dealer suggested that
> I use oil testing to keep the warranties on the engine and transmission. The
> Cat C7 engine and Allison MD3000 transmission are huge ticket items.
>
>
>
> After a while after seeing how easy it was and getting the kits for low cost
> with bulk buying I began using it on my vehicles and now push it for
> customer vehicles. Here are some surprise findings:
>
>
>
> After a round trip from NY to Florida the oil test came back with silica in
> the oil. During the trip we encountered a lot of construction and bad
> weather. On the way back some snow and ice and the roads were salted/sanded.
> The air filter failed (and this is a big one) failed to keep the dirt out.
> Changed toil oil and filters and added a 2 micron absolute bypass oil filter
> system. If not for the test I would have left that oil in for another 4,000
> miles.
>
>
>
> Get those reusable cleanable high performance air filters. Get that extra HP
> you can't feel and let that silica right in there.
>
>
>
> Vanagon engines keep oil fairly clean, high upper ring temperatures cause
> the oil to oxidize. Even with Mobil 1 7,500 miles change intervals work.
>
>
>
> My Fox and the Audi never seem to wear the oil. The Fox will require
> changing due to silica and resulting wear particles. The air inlet is in a
> great place to clean the top of the tire. Mann/Mahle filters seem to give
> up about 5,000 miles. Better filters get me to 12,000 to 14,000 mile
> intervals. I have even seen some filters clean up oil that had bad readings.
> My 600SEL seems to always have wear particles as an issue. I figure the
> engine is tearing itself up or maybe just the timing chains-sprockets are
> going.
>
>
>
> Oil analysis can pick up even small traces of antifreeze, long before you
> will see it. Doing Waterboxer heads, pull those cylinders and change those
> gaskets underneath. Be sure to seal the faces of the head nuts inside the
> rocker covers.
>
>
>
> Have an oil leak! I learned that oil leaking out usually means dirt is
> getting in.
>
>
>
> Fluid analysis also applies to coolant. Are the additives doing their job?
> Is the coolant contaminated? Is it the proper strength? What about
> combustion gasses or even oil? There is also a lot that can be learned here.
>
>
>
>
> There are a number of companies that supply testing programs. Most mail a
> kit that includes a sample container and the postage is usually prepaid.
> Consider how the sample will be drawn. A vacuum pump and tube is a common
> approach. The caterpillar (S.O.S) kits come with a new tube for each test.
> There is often a deal where you can get 10 kits with a pump. Then keep the
> pump afterwards. If you plan to test oil and coolant get a pump just for the
> coolant. It will be a different color for identifying. No matter how hard
> you try using the same pump will give false positive readings for antifreeze
> in the oil.
>
>
>
> Dennis
>
| 
