Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 20:18:37 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Automotive Shop Rate Question
In-Reply-To: <91F5B3CE-F237-415B-8CEB-8856183D91FD@peterkrogh.com>
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I think that's a super fair deal..
100 bucks to change 2 jetta front axles.
I'd be happy to pay that.
I think flat rate is pretty goofy.
On the one hand they will try to do a 5 hr job in 3 hrs and charge for 5.
I talked to a technician that works at a Honda Dealership once..
and he said he was billing out 80 hrs a week ( in a 40 hr work week ) .
I said 'if people knew that they'd think they were getting ripped off.'
He said ........They are getting ripped off !
and that was normal for that cardealership I think.
OTOH ....flat rate books assume things are not ancient, or fillthy, or
rusted badly.
Furthermore ..........and this is a Big One if *really* fixing 20 + year
old vanagons.
It is *never* just change a part .......not if really taking care of a
vanagon and addressing what really needs to be addressed -
A typical example.
Subject is a 90 Syncro Vanagon with Subaru EZ30 engine conversion with
about 20K on the conversion.
Clutch pedal went limp. ........and that turned into this ..
Pull trans to adderss failed clutch slave cylinder inside bell housing .
Send trans out for rebuliding since we knew it was tired anyway ..
and to get the upgrade special bell housing that didn't exist when the
conversion was done.
Plus .........install a right side fuel tank strap that was just 'not
there' other than the badly rusted ends of the old one.
plus ....treat the other side's rusted tank strap as much as easily
possible ..as it was also badly rusted,
plus ...treat frame rust on that crossmember at the front of the trans
there.
plus, remove clutch master cylinder to insert this little spacer
adapter the conversion company adds since their upgrade.
plus ....
( it always really goes on and on if you really address everything the
poor things need )
put on a better cat as the one on there looks quite smalland is starting
to fuse up some..and fuel milage has alwaus been pretty poor anyway.
And ...we would have adjusted on driveshaft flange angles to address
minor vibration issues , but decided to keep things right where they are
to see if rebuilding the trans is a factor in reducing the slight
vibrations issues it's had for a while.
How to you bill out for that?
Since I do other things and other vanagons it's a little hard to log the
real hours.
I'm sure 15 hours is in the ball park.
When I ran some #'s for the guy I came up with 900 labor ..way fair I'd
say.
and I spent longer than I should have packing his trans up to ship it ..
and schleping it over to the shipper across town.
And chasing a part that someone forgot to include with the new upgrade
bell housing .
it's never 'just changing the part' ..
not for real through and complete careful work.
I don't think you can even get most shops to do that ..all the details
..particularly concerning rust and corrosion.
I sure don't put the trans back in with bare metal and bare aluminum ..
that stuff loves to corrode. That takes time too- treating that.
And I would walk right out of a shop that wanted to charge me hundreds
for a simple job like a door panel removal.
Those books are ...
well ..they are good for shops making money off consumers.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
On 12/21/2012 7:26 PM, Peter Krogh wrote:
>> That said, I value what these guys do and
>> want to keep that door open. With that in mind, just wanted to get a
>> POV on all this. I can already see that this kind of thing may be very
>> "normal" given the circumstances.
>
> For me the issue is less what the rate is than how the hours are figured. i had a (former) mechanic who charged the book rate for everything. That's how they did it - period. If the book said it's four hours, they would charge 4 hours (even if the car was ready three hours later).
>
> I started to dislike this approach when the book rate was clearly wrong. I was told pulling the door panel off my Eurovan was going to be several hours - and that's what I would have had to pay - approved in advance. A quick search on the internet revealed that the panel can be removed in less than 5 minutes, even by me.
>
> My current mechanic charges me for the actual time worked. I recently had him replace the half shafts on my Jetta. I think he charged me $100 labor (I provided the parts). His labor at $100/hour is worth every penny. I'd still think it's worth it at $125.
>
> Unfortunately, while he really knows vanagons, he does not want to touch them.
>
> _____
>
> As a self-emloyed person for my entire adult life, I can understand the need to adjust rates - sometimes more than once. Perhaps he hired a new employee who required more pay. Or perhaps he found out that he was not in fact making money at the old rate.
>
> Peter Krogh
> Author, The DAM Book, Digital Asset Management for Photographers
> Second Edition May, 2009
> www.theDAMbook.com
>
