Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 18:53:45 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Fire!
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAOt/xdRkfLlAqIF53JVUnbzCgAAAEAAAAJ+YclgfjdpAv9PEZjS3+QQBAAAAAA==@dslextreme.com>
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Hi Dick,
Halon is 'magic'. Not sure you can get it anymore..
20 + years ago I saw some small ones for sale for about $ 22 each ..
got 3 of them.
I had a real case to use one, during some fuel injector testing , with
'live' gasoline.
of all the car fires I have ever been around, I got all of them ( 4 or 5
maybe in 40 + yrs ) out in about a tenth of a second ..just a short blast.
Same thing this time .I had an inch and 1/2 of liquid gasoline in a
yogurt container ..
with two feet of flames rising up.
One instanteous shot from the halon ..
all flames just 'disappeared' .. No mess, no residue, the liquid
gasoline remained in the yogurt container.
Nothing was hot even .
it's been largely disonctinued for environmental reasons ..
but some may still be available.
I got one fan with an engine fire, an 87 GL ..
under all the melted plastic and hoses was a fine rebuilt 2.1 engine,
and afairly fresh transaxle.
That van is quite happy these days .
Fire extinquishers come in a few styles - I get the 'electrical and
liquid flammables' type ..
the kind that's about a foot tall.
There are endless options of course.
Few engine conversions have much documentation with them, unfortunagely.
Ideally the converted van should come with wiring diagrams used , and so
on.
it's apain to have to take things apart just to figure out what someone
did doing the conversion.
I have yet to see a well-documented and supported-with-tech-info
conversion unless it's one I did.
oh ! ..you were shaking too much to use an extinguisher perhaps - I bet
you coulda .
btw....*never* open the hood or engine cover for an engine fire , unless
the fire is still small!
shoot through the ventsand intake grills.
my concern with on-baord systems it that it might not be aimed at what
you need it aimed at .
'both' of course...built in on-board and hand held.
I still doubt that some brake fluid on an exhaust pipe would start much
of a fire ..
gotta watch the back end ..
as least as often as the temp gauge ..on a vanagon that means about
every 30 seconds, constantly.
scott
www.turbovans.com
On 12/16/2012 6:12 PM, Dick Wong wrote:
> Thank you everyone for your comments.
>
> Other than some smoke stains at the two intakes and on the hatch above the
> license plate door there is no visible signs of a fire on the outside of the
> Syncro.
>
> There were bits of various hoses that had fallen to the ground after be
> burnt to a crisp. Various hoses and wiring harnesses are fried. Air
> cleaner box is warped. Coolant reservoir is warped and has one hole in it
> (a coolant hose could also have burst/burned that contributed to the coolant
> release, but I don't know yet). Engine cover has some discoloration on the
> interior side of the driver side with burnt away insulation on the engine
> side. Rear carpet looks fine (as far as 25 year old carpet goes).
>
> I definitely think it is salvageable.
>
> I had not bought an extinguisher(s) yet. What size would you recommend? Can
> you still buy the halon type?
>
> Yes, no one was hurt.
>
> Is it coincidental that I had no clutch just before the fire? Was there a
> fire brewing and I didn't notice it until I came to a stop? Did the clutch
> issue cause the fire or the fire cause the clutch issue?
>
> It looks like mostly melted parts at first glance. The problem is that
> since this is a conversion, there are non-standard Vanagon parts and there
> are no list of parts/part numbers. It's just a setback, but the cold
> weather/rain doesn't encourage me to do anything right now.
>
> I don't know if I could have put the fire out if I had an extinguisher. I
> was shaking so much.
>
> I have heard about the "in-board" extinguishers. They have them for power
> and sailing boats too. There are even automatic ones that pop off when a
> certain temperature is exceeded.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> -Dick-
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Edward Maglott
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:01 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Fire!
>
> Wow that's a weird one. Maybe we should all put a spray nozzle on the
> coolant tank with a pull cord to release coolant onto the engine in case it
> catches fire. (just kidding) Yes, you need to have a fire extinguisher, or
> 3 like Jim. It's a horrible experience to sit helpless watching your
> beloved vanagon burn. My '71 camper caught fire when the fuel line came off
> the carb. By the time my brother got back there, opened the engine hatch
> and told me it was on fire, I was ready with the extinguisher. A few
> roadside repairs and we
> continued our trip! Can you tell if fire got into the interior? As
> someone else said, it may be totalled by insurance but it probably still has
> a lot of value. If not to you, to someone else looking for a project.
>
> Edward
>
>
> At 06:36 PM 12/16/2012, you wrote:
>> I'm okay.
>>
>> Early November I bought my first Vanagon. 1987 GL Syncro with a
>> Audi/VW 2.5L I5 conversion.
>>
>> Today I had an engine fire.
>>
>> Coming to a stop on a freeway off ramp the clutch pedal goes to the
>> floor without disengaging. Step on it again and same results. Van is
>> lurching forward because the clutch won't release. Hitting the brake
>> slowed it but I can feel the engine pushing forward. I shut off the
>> ignition to bring it to a stop. I look in my mirrors and see smoke
>> coming from the rear air intakes. I hop out in the middle of the road
>> and run to the back hoping it might only be steam. No luck, it's stinky
> smoke and starting to turn black.
>> I get my cell phone and dial 911. I stand there and watch flames
>> starting to come from the bottom of the engine. More black smoke. I
>> think to myself, I am going to watch my "new" Syncro burn to the
>> ground. All of a sudden there is a loud hiss and the smoke turns to
>> white steam and water is streaming from the engine. The coolant tank
>> melted and sprayed coolant on to the fire and put it out. Shortly
>> after an highway patrol pull up. A few minutes later the fire truck
> arrives.
>> Not a nice day.
>>
>> My theory is: Clutch hose or the slave had a catastrophic failure and
>> when I stepped on the clutch, the brake fluid sprayed out on to the
>> exhaust piping (exhaust runs forward on the driver side). The fluid
>> flashed and started burning.
>>
>> It's sitting in my driveway now. I'll start looking at the damages
>> another day. I'm too depressed to do anything now. Fireman said that
>> it might be a total loss.
>>
>> -Dick Wong-
>> 78 Scirocco
>> Original Owner
>> 87 Syncro 2.5
>> Third Owner
>> 12 Golf TDI
>> Original Co-Owner
> -----
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