Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 19:37:34 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Fire!
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds506075DCB410949816244A03A0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Good idea ..
re-engineer the whole layout so it's easy to work on ..
and everything is in a safe location.
reminds me of a 'typical' engine conversion electrical issue I worked on.
Two aspects of some wiring were not very kosher.
there was a high wattage extra back-up light...
carrying a lot of current in it's wire..
which was pretty close to the AHU tdi exhaust manifold and turbo (
factory TD turbo location , euro model ) ..
so higher that stock current flow in wires near the exhaust ..
then two exhaust manifold gaskets blew out ..
the 2 factors combined to melt wires together.
shorting out a couple of systems and the van had to be towed about 100
miles.
That'sthekind of thing to correct now in getting this I5 Syncro back
together.
seeing pretty bogus things on some conversions lately has caused me to
thing about and realize that car manufacturers spend years learning what
is reliable on their vehicles ..
and they generally stick to those same methods, with success.
that is not true with engine conversions...
so be careful. Need to eyeball everything with a critical eye to what is
near heat sources, what can rub on what ..and so on.
Electrical shorts are at least as hazardous as fuel as a fire source.
here's a good example..
bone stock 82 Diesel Vanagon. There is a plastic clip by the battery
that holds the positive battery cable on it's way to the starter.
if that clip is missing, and the pos batt cable rides on the oil filter...
in a while, perhaps 5K miles...engine vibration will rub through the
insulation on the cable..
the zap burns a hole in the oil filter, catching the oil on fire ..
the fire grows until all the plastic bits are burning ..
and in particular that case. a power company truck came by with a fire
extinquisher and damage was not terminal.
But it would have been .
battery power( alternator hot lead too ) is particularly vulnerable to
rubbing and shorting out .
I have an 85 GL that burnt to a crisp that way ..
hot wires under the back seat and rug , on their way to a big power amp
, shorted out.
All the guy could do was stop, step outside of the van and call 911.
Bye bye vanagon.
And ....some people may not realize that if the run a hot wire somewhere
and then fuse it, there's no short protection upstream of the fuse.
There are numerous unfused circuits in vanagons too.
Ideally ..
every van should have a fire extinguisher on board and a way to
disconnect the battery/s in 2seconds.
anway ..they're fun to re-do right.
There's huge energy in battery voltage. ..you don't want that stuff
going where it doesn't belong ..
and technically..it's actually trying to constantly.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
On 12/24/2012 5:43 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> Much of the main harness goes through that box. There are some round wiring
> connectors for the taillights and stuff. There is an alternator feed wire in
> there. And some stuff like the ignition coil power and the crankcase vent
> heater is connected in there. I probably should be moved since that engine
> makes it difficult to service.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Dick Wong
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 2:46 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Fire!
>
> Since I'm a noob on Vanagons and only a little familiar with the VW I5
> engine, Can someone tell me what was that black box on the driver side
> forward wall? (the one with the silver label)
>
> I am thinking of patching/jumpering up all the wiring and start with cheap
> hoses to see if the engine will run, check compression and the like. If the
> mechanical condition of the engine checks out, I'll look into real part
> replacement.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Dick-
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JRodgers [mailto:jrodgers113@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:50 PM
> To: Dick Wong
> Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Fire!
>
> I would say it salvageable, but that engine and everything in the engine bay
> is toast!
>
> John
>
> On 12/22/2012 9:34 PM, Dick Wong wrote:
>> Added some more pictures today.
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://plus.google.com/photos/109269280604562976036/albums/582316564
>> 680081
>> 9169?authkey=CKyk1tixnrXNDw>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Dick Wong-
>> 78 Scirocco
>> Original Owner
>> 87 Syncro 2.5 (slightly crispy)
>>
>> Third Owner
>>
>> 12 Golf TDI
>>
>> Original Co-Owner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Dick Wong [mailto:sailingfc@dslextreme.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:18 PM
>> To: 'vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM'
>> Subject: RE: Fire!
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are some pictures. Both links are to the same site.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fire pictures.
>> <https://plus.google.com/photos/109269280604562976036/albums/582316564
>> 680081
>> 9169?authkey=CKyk1tixnrXNDw>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/109269280604562976036/albums/5823165646
>> 800819
>> 169?authkey=CKyk1tixnrXNDw
>>
>>
>>
>> -Dick Wong-
>> 78 Scirocco
>> Original Owner
>> 87 Syncro 2.5
>>
>> Third Owner
>>
>> 12 Golf TDI
>>
>> Original Co-Owner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dick Wong [mailto:sailingfc@dslextreme.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 3:37 PM
>> To: 'vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM'
>> Subject: Fire!
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm okay.
>>
>>
>>
>> Early November I bought my first Vanagon. 1987 GL Syncro with a
>> Audi/VW 2.5L I5 conversion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Today I had an engine fire.
>>
>>
>>
>> Coming to a stop on a freeway off ramp the clutch pedal goes to the
>> floor without disengaging. Step on it again and same results. Van is
>> lurching forward because the clutch won't release. Hitting the brake
>> slowed it but I can feel the engine pushing forward. I shut off the
>> ignition to bring it to a stop. I look in my mirrors and see smoke
>> coming from the rear air intakes. I hop out in the middle of the road
>> and run to the back hoping it might only be steam. No luck, it's
>> stinky
> smoke and starting to turn black.
>> I get my cell phone and dial 911. I stand there and watch flames
>> starting to come from the bottom of the engine. More black smoke. I
>> think to myself, I am going to watch my "new" Syncro burn to the
>> ground. All of a sudden there is a loud hiss and the smoke turns to
>> white steam and water is streaming from the engine. The coolant tank
>> melted and sprayed coolant on to the fire and put it out. Shortly
>> after an highway patrol pull up. A few minutes later the fire truck
> arrives.
>>
>>
>> Not a nice day.
>>
>>
>>
>> My theory is: Clutch hose or the slave had a catastrophic failure and
>> when I stepped on the clutch, the brake fluid sprayed out on to the
>> exhaust piping (exhaust runs forward on the driver side). The fluid
>> flashed and started burning.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's sitting in my driveway now. I'll start looking at the damages
>> another day. I'm too depressed to do anything now. Fireman said that
>> it might be a total loss.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Dick Wong-
>>
>> 78 Scirocco
>>
>> Original Owner
>>
>> 87 Syncro 2.5
>>
>> Third Owner
>>
>> 12 Golf TDI
>>
>> Original Co-Owner
>>
> -----
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