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Date:         Wed, 6 Feb 2013 13:53:59 -0800
Reply-To:     Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: No Start Cause: Relay Failure. PICS, Thoughts.
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
In-Reply-To:  <5112D109.7060808@turbovans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Uh... Printed Circuit Board perhaps?

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > Igather that by PCBs you don't meanPolychlorinated Biphenyls > <http://www.epa.gov/pcb/> > > > On 2/6/2013 1:00 PM, David Beierl wrote: >> >> At 03:12 PM 2/6/2013, neil n wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Dick and David. >>> >>> Thanks *very* much for insights into what may have happened. Yes, >>> maybe that solder joint was re heated. The insulated female terminal >>> from 30 to relay shows what may be a slight small burn mark. >> >> >> Well it certainly got hot enough to melt the solder around the >> terminal, but that was from high resistance and arcing once the joint >> had already gone bad. The flux residue around the solder pad also >> suggests that it may have been reworked/reflowed -- i.e. repaired -- >> previously, which is what Dick was talking about. That would have >> been done on the bench and not affected the female terminal. >> >> >>> The replacement 109 relay is a different design; the pins go directly >>> to the internal parts. Which begs a question: >>> >>> How do I know which way the relay box goes back on the relay base? >> >> >> VW relays with PCBs have a pair of molded-in rails inside the cover, >> that the board slides into to support it against overall >> distortion/vibration. Failing to mount the cover in this orientation >> will contribute to terminal failures. >> >> >>> Since this was my first time at a swap (or work of this magnitude), I >>> went with OEM wherever possible. I assumed the 109 relay had some more >>> complex electrical "voodoo" going on so I made a point of using that >>> part. Same with fuel pump relay. The ABA fuel pump relay has large >>> 30-87 terminals and a small 85 terminal (ECU) so a generic relay block >>> was of no use. The 109 also has the small 85 pin. IIRC, I had been >>> using a relay socket for the 109 along with a separate wire to 85 pin. >>> Yes. Seems so. Image: >>> >>> https://sites.google.com/site/tubaneil2/PowerRelayDiagram.jpg I >>> don't recall when or why I deleted this socket. >> >> >> This relay according to the diagram on the side has an additional >> component (likely a diode?) wired in parallel with the activating >> coil. This would likely be to protect the electronics driving the >> relay from being fried by the voltage pulse when the coil is >> de-energised. You'll want to know what that component is before >> replacing it with a generic relay (which you otherwise could by >> taking a standard relay and connecting the 86 terminal to the 30 >> terminal. This particular relay is operated by switching the ground >> lead rather than the hot lead of the coil. All this suggests to me >> that it's being driven by an ECU output, is this correct? >> >>> type. They will fit a FLAPS type generic relay socket. Both the Jetta >>> Power Supply and Fuel Pump relays have a suppression component >>> (appears to be a resistor) in parallel on 85 and 86 so I would make >>> sure a substitute relay has same. >> >> >> Ok, how specifically does it appear to be a resistor? What does it >> look like, exactly? Any numbers, banded end, color bands, body >> material, body color, body shape? I guess a parallel resistor could >> be used to mitigate a voltage spike, I'm just not accustomed to the idea. >> >> Yrs, >> d >> >


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