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Date:         Sun, 3 Feb 2013 20:56:21 -0500
Reply-To:     Craig Cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Craig Cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE/Running Cold?
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <BAY152-ds7BA36F9CFA9150D9A99F2A0010@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hmm... It does have a bleed hole in it. Must be crap then.

I'll take it back and put in a used thermostat, which i will test in water first.

-Craig

On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>wrote:

> I have seen my share of defective thermostats and being German, (if it > really is), doesn't mean anything. It also has to have the correct > characteristics. Due to the really massive capacity of the Vanagon cooling > system the stat is really important for cold weather operation. > Unfortunately due to lack of demand the proper stats are no longer > available > from the dealer. I have yet to see an aftermarket stat that works as well. > Also where did you get the stat? If from a local parts store most likely > you > actually have the wrong stat. Most of the aftermarket books just use the > top > disc diameter for identification and will supply an Audi stat. The Audi > stats have a lower disc that is too large and in the wrong place. These > will > jam open or worse not fully open when needed. One design feature of the OEM > stats is the top inner disc actually has a rubber seal to prevent any > leakage-bypass when closed. Some aftermarket stats will even have a bleed. > > Dennis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > Craig Cowan > Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 3:16 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE/Running Cold? > > Well the thermostat was a new, german built unit. Yes, i believe it's > defective. I plan to install a known good used one soon. > I tried cardboard infront of the radiator and sure enough, the temp still > dives at highway speeds. Very odd. > I will be unplugging the o2 sensor and seeing if that makes it run like > crap > on my next drive of any substance. > I have put some injector cleaner in the gas, and it has been pointed out to > me that the starting issue could be a leaking injector, which would also > account for the decreased fuel mileage. I plan to send a spare set off to > the wizards for testing/calibrating. > > -Craig > > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Dennis Haynes > <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>wrote: > > > I know it's not Friday but how about doing some real honest to > > goodness trouble shooting? Seriously! It is easy enough to test the O2 > > sensor to determine if you are getting proper mixture control. Also, > > if the engine temperature is falling at highway speed you may be going > > into open loop control or even worse warm up enrichment. In addition > > the lower temp also means less efficiency and increased oil viscosity. > > Four screws, change the t-stat. Keep in mind that extended warm up > > time, idling, additional headlight and heater fan use all affect fuel > > economy. Automatics and Syncros take a real hit for winter operation. > > > > Dennis > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > > Behalf Of Craig Cowan > > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:19 PM > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > Subject: Re: TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE/Running Cold? > > > > Well, i've gotten a step closer to solving the running issues, i believe. > > Yesterday i found the temp gauge will still dive above 60mph, and it > > was warmer (25*F or so?), but i think the issue is bigger than just a > > faulty/weird thermostat. I think my 8mpg running is in part coming > > from terrible grounds. > > When I first built this bus, for whatever reason I seem to have forgot > > to deal with the grounds? > > My chronically slow starting condition suddenly made since, and i dove > > into the engine bay to find the braided cable snapped off in my hand, > > and all the ring terminals looked like crap. > > I cleaned up some of the ring terminals and replaced the ends of a few > > others. I put a 4 gauge grounding cable from the engine to the body > > and from the starter motor's lower bolt to the body. > > My starting is still screwed up, but seems improved. > > I can't wait to see how this effected fuel economy. I imagine the > > entire fuel injection system was reading poorly if the grounds weren't > sound. > > Hopefully my messing with wires didn't awaken any new beasts..... > > > > We shall see. > > > > -Craig > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Stuart MacMillan > > <stuartmacm@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > I've had a surprising number of aftermarket thermostats not work > > > properly over the years. Quality control is non-existent on some of > > these > > parts. > > > Your high speed temp drop points to the T stat not cycling or > > > opening too far at speed, which is pumping the coolant through the > > > valve at > > higher > > > pressure and perhaps holding it fully open. T stats are constantly > > > adjusting, or should be, to keep the engine temp constant. > > > > > > Change it to what Dennis recommends. > > > > > > Stuart > > > '85 Westy > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > > > Behalf Of Craig Cowan > > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:00 PM > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > > Subject: Re: TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE/Running Cold? > > > > > > Hmm.... It is an aftermarket thermostat but stock temp and speced > > > for the Vanagon. It was stamped Germany and the club installed it, > > > getting the seal of approval by several members. > > > It also did operate as expected, and it works fine up to 60mph. > > > Odd.... > > > > > > -craig > > > > > > On Jan 24, 2013, at 2:18 PM, David Milo <dellaone@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > > > > > > From a post on 12/12/12 from Dennis Haynes: What are you referring > > > > to as high temperature? The stock Thermostat rating is 87C, (188F). > > > > That is plenty and should be used all year. From experience, the > > > > most consistent acting and best response are the ones from the > dealer. > > > > (???). Of the features of the part the top control disc has a > > > > rubber gasket to ensure no leak by when it is closed. Next choice > > > > would be the Wahler, (German). I have had some Mehle that fit but > > > > they may be > > > coming from unknown sources. > > > > If you do go to a parts store, almost all will sell you the wrong > > > > stat. The lower disc will be the wrong diameter. If the listing > > > > includes some Audi or other vehicles it is wrong. > > > > The confusion comes from the practice that T-stats get listed for > > > > vehicles based on just a few specifications. Usually the top > > > > housing diameter is the key. Vlave types, bypasses, bleeds, > > > > lengths and other > > > features get lost. > > > > This is a real problem even in American vehicles, trucks, RV's > > > > that need stats with more flow and thus use a different design > > > > such as umbrella instead of disc. The wrong stat may jam partly > > > > open and/or not open far enough for proper cooling. > > > > > > > > Dave Milo > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:10 PM, David Milo <dellaone@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Aftermarket thermostat? Could be malfunctioning. I have read many > > > >> times from Dennis Haynes that most aftermarket thermostats do not > > > >> fit or operate properly. Extreme conditions could exacerbate that. > > > >> > > > >> Dave Milo > > > >> > > > >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Jeff Lincoln <magikvw@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> I am reluctant to reply to this Craig but is it possible, even > > > >>> at 15deg, that it's just because it's cold? > > > >>> > > > >>> Gertie runs the temp gauge dead on center - consistantly, until > > > >>> this week > > > >>> - > > > >>> it's been very cold here this week ranging from about 2deg to 15 > > > >>> or so - the needle is running at about 1/4 - 1/3 and cabin heat > > > >>> is there but not as it was. Again, I could be talking out my > > > >>> backside but it sort of made sense to me - thinking about trying > > > >>> the cardboard trick myself just to see if it helps. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Thanks, > > > >>> > > > >>> Jeff > > > >>> '85 GL (Gertie) > > > >>> '78 Bus (Melissa) Patty's Bus > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >


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