Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 09:48:05 -0500
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Copious Fuel Leak at Both Manifolds-Crimp clamps
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Squeeze or crimp clamps are used for a number of reasons including cost.
There are also many variations available including gapless and lined. They
are often used by OEM since they can be consistently installed and when
sized and crimped properly they also allow for some expansion capability.
This was the way VW did most of the fuel lines except where quick disconnect
was needed for assembly or service. On the injectors a "self locking" hose
is used similar to Parker "push lock" or Aeroquip "Socket less" hose. No
clamp on the special barbed fitting. For repair they are easily cut and
replaced. Fixing a leak by tightening a clamp is never a repair unless it
was not tightened correctly to begin with. If a leak is developing due a
hose taking a set and loosening time to refit the hose.
Sometime around 1990 VW went to a different hose and went to the spring type
clamps. There was even a recall to update them. When it comes to fuel line
replacement if you look at the ETKA there is a different hose listed for the
engine compartment. Bring $$. It is sold by the piece and you will need 5
pieces. However it is a very tight fit on the connectors, the spring clamps
fit, it fits easily in the sleeve, and keeps shape under clamps really well.
Basically if your replacement hose is off a reel, it is not the "right
stuff" per VW for the engine compartment.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
David Beierl
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:33 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Copious Fuel Leak at Both Manifolds
At 10:57 AM 2/16/2013, Steve Williams wrote:
>the leak, so I could safely drive to the shop. But GoWesty uses clamps
>with no adjusting screw that require a particular tool, with which I'm
>not familiar.
Ah, crimp clamps. Very inexpensive and can be very effective if you have
the application tool. VW used them on a number of small hoses when building
the vans. They're not adjustable though, and I strongly question GoWesty's
justification for using them instead of proper fuel-system screw clamps
which do *not* have the flat spot they mention in connection with regular
band clamps. I think they used them because they're inexpensive, not
because they're the best choice. Of course they're not inexpensive for you
unless you already have the crimping tool.
>Peninsula prefers not to have the fuel line pass through the firewall,
>even with that grommet.
I'm very much inclined to disagree with them on that one, especially since
the true firewall is farther forward under the back seat. But it's a good
fitting, similar to the OEM metal galvanized fitting that was used on some
vehicles. It should last forever. And while one could be cynical about
selling you a 25-euro part instead of nothing, I imagine they're sincere in
their belief that it's the Right Way To Do It.
>Peninsula used screw clamps, and I notice they arranged the clamps so
>the heads of the screws face up, making it easier to tighten or remove
>them when the time comes. I trust GoWesty, who eschew screw clamps,
>but I trust Peninsula, too. I'd welcome your thoughts on this.
If you go to www.vanagain.com and search for p/n Fuel1, you'll see the type
of special screw clamp that's designed for high-pressure fuel injection use.
As to positioning, anyone who installs a hose clamp should be thoughtful
about later access for adjustment, removal or whatever. Sometimes that's
easy and obvious, and sometimes it leads to some very odd-looking
orientation.
>Certainly the manifolds can be damaged, but I haven't read anywhere
>that they fail solely due to age. In this case, Peninsula says the
>hoses were leaking.
In the Salt Zone(TM) the clamp rings holding the cap onto the rest of the
fuel rail corrode and burst, at which point the cap jumps off leaving the
end of the rail completely open.
Yours,
David