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Date:         Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:35:50 -0500
Reply-To:     mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject:      Re: '87 Westy - Oil Change, out of hibernation
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <BAY152-ds48A5A0D36D388DAFCDE55A0E30@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Dennis, this has interested me greatly ever since I had bad experience with oil pressure readings when I first got my camper (1991 Volkswagen Vanagon GL Campmobile with 2.1 waterboxer engine). Some may recall my long series of posts and attempts to understand what was happening. I have since installed an auxiliary oil cooler (from TenCentLife), and I run a good quality 20W50 oil generally.

The rub comes with the wide range of temperatures and conditions I drive under. Winter here in the South Plains can mean temperatures well below freezing in morning but warming to above 60 F on the same day. Meanwhile, some winter days will see temperatures around 0 F. So, winter driving in one environment is not the same as winter driving elsewhere.

Summer may see local low temperatures above 60 F, with highs reaching above 110 F. Cross country travel may mean not only high speeds on interstates, but a daily temperature range from near freezing to highs above 90 F or even above a hundred, since I may start out at 10K feet elevation in the northern Rockies, but drive across desert flats in Nevada on the same day.

With modern cars and modern oils, a good, multi-grade oil serves all those conditions. The waterboxer is not a modern car.

Comments? Recommendations? VW oil recommendations (and your comments below) would have me changing oil sometimes daily.

mcneely

---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: > 0w-30 and 0w-40 are going to give noticeably different oil pressure results > when warm so to warn against all mobil1 products based on the one experience > with possibly the wrong viscosity choice is not good advice. Also you can’t > compare the viscosity requirements of the water boxer to the Subaru engines. > As for the factory recommendations with straight weight oils the limitations > actually become start up and warm up operation. A straight 40 will be too > thick to adequately flow and lubricate at low temperatures. Working on VW's > when multi-weight oils were just becoming available I recall many a blown > oil cooler on my parents bug or bus. When you look at those SAE ratings for > multi weight oils the lower number refers to the viscosity at 40C and the > upper is at 100C. So at operating temperature a *w-50 will have higher > viscosity then a straight 40. While *w-40 oil will normally work fine for > the water boxer, when the day comes that extended high speed or load pushes > oil temps above normal limits you will get a wakeup call from that oil > pressure warning buzzer even on a healthy engine. The *w-50 gives that > viscosity edge the water boxer needs. As for the Subaru engines they are > designed to run with thinner oils. Many newer cars now call for 5w-20 or > 0w-20. As for ZDDP discussion Mobil 1, 15w-50 is higher ZDDP formulation. > Look at the product details on their web site. I run the Mobil 1, 0w-40 > European formulae on my VW's, Audi A8, 600SEL. The Water boxers get the > 15w-50 except for daily driver use in Winter where I go down to the 0w-40. > > Dennis > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > OlRivrRat > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:52 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: '87 Westy - Oil Change, out of hibernation > > Jeremy > > Just to add some options or confusion to the answer to your > questions ~ this is from a couple of posts I made back in Nov'12 ~ > > I just reread the LubricationSpecs in the OwnersManuals of both my > 83.5 & 90 Westys & in fact in the SingleWeight columns SAE50 is not even > mentioned ~ SAE40 is the recommended Oil for Temps from 70º on up off the > end of the chart. SAE **w-50 is indicated in the MultiGrade columns but > shares the Temp'Range with SAE **w-40. SAE10, 5w-30 & > 5w-20 are even recommended under certain conditions. Certainly in an > OldEngine there might be a need to run SAE50 under some Temp' > conditions but I would let my OilPressure be my guide not necessarily a > manual that was written 22 - 29yrs ago. I would run nothing but 0w40 in my > H2OBoxr if Valvoline made it but the thinest they go is 5w40 so that works > for me. I know that Mobil1 comes in 0w40 but I just did an unscientific > 3000mi test of Mob1 0w30 in my 90Westys EJ25 & experienced some goofy O'P's > so I won't ever use or recommend Mobil1 again. > > > In your research you should put Valvoline on your list ( I don't work > for them ~ Just like their stuff ) > > 2 main points > > 1. Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/ > phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the motor oil > where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. > Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire > line of passenger car motor oils including SynPower -- the only synthetic > oil that offers this additive. > > 2. The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car enthusiasts > is actually short for Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or ZDDP. Its primary role > is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between engine parts by forming a > protective film. Despite being referred to as zinc, this additive actually > contains zinc and phosphorus, with phosphorus performing the anti-wear > function in the motor oil with zinc. > > > Links to & excerpts from > > http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/full-synthetic-motor-oil/ > > 15. How does Valvoline's SynPower formula protect against wear? > > SynPower full synthetic motor oil is formulated with a balance of high > quality ingredients such as detergents, dispersants, antioxidants, friction > modifiers, anti-wear additives and premium base oils that work together to > provide exceptional protection against engine stress and wear. > > Valvoline's proprietary formulation includes special anti-wear chemistry. > Valvoline's low impact ZDDP allows phosphorus in the anti- wear additive to > stay in the oil longer than other leading synthetic motor oils. Phosphorous > bonds to metal parts in the engine to form a "sacrificial" layer that helps > protect against friction and metal wear in the engine. > > SynPower uses premium detergents and dispersants that protect against > deposits and sludge to keep engines clean. SynPower's premium full synthetic > base oils and additives hold up to extreme temperatures to provide increased > protection for your engine. > > > http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/ > > 2. What is motor oil with zinc? > > The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car enthusiasts is > actually short for Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or ZDDP. Its primary role is > to prevent metal-to-metal contact between engine parts by forming a > protective film. Despite being referred to as zinc, this additive actually > contains zinc and phosphorus, with phosphorus performing the anti-wear > function in the motor oil with zinc. > > 3. Why is it important to have the zinc/phosphorus levels in > motor oil > changed? > > With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers have > tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one of several > factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute > (API) sets standards for motor oil with zinc. The current API standard is SM > which replaced the previous SL classification. Because phosphorus can poison > a vehicle's emission system, the level of zinc is lower for current motor > oil. > > 4. What is the controversy surrounding the amount of zinc in > motor oil? > > Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of > zinc in SM motor oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and > flat-tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new motor oil > classifications are intended to be backward compatible. This has resulted in > the widely accepted belief that modern motor oil is not adequate to protect > older engines. > > 5. What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue? > > Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue: > 1. Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with > a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal > applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet > engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity > grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and straight > 60. > 2. Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/ > phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the motor oil > where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. > Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire > line of passenger car motor oils including SynPower -- the only synthetic > oil that offers this additive. > > 6. Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or "Not Street Legal" racing > oil? > > Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent of zinc and .12 percent of > phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil which > contains .14 percent of zinc and .13 percent of phosphorus. > > ORR ~ DeanB > > PS ~ as far as filters go ~ I use Wix ~ claimed by a lot of folks to be the > best ~ I get them from NAPA in the form of NAPA Gold ~ have used them on all > my cars for a lot of years with no complaints ~ there have been some times > that I have used the higher end Frams & have never had a problem with them > either. > > > On 11 Mar , 2013, at 2:17 PM, Jeremy Stovin wrote: > > > Thanks again for the insight. > > > > You listed a variety of filters, but I did not get which one you > > personally like. > > > > Jeremy > >

-- David McNeely


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