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Date:         Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:51:37 -0500
Reply-To:     mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject:      Re: '87 Westy - Oil Change, out of hibernation
Comments: To: Jeremy Stovin <jjstov@YAHOO.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <1363182341.51680.YahooMailNeo@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

---- Jeremy Stovin <jjstov@YAHOO.COM> wrote: > So much advice from all. My head is spinning.   The common denominator I am seeing is 15W-50. I think I will go for that. This is not a daily driver. Our big trip is in the summer going from moderate Seattle temps to hotter San Diego temps. I want to keep it simple. (My brain can't handle more than that.)   I will likely bring it in to have a pro change my coolant hoses as some of those are getting a bit soft.   >Side question: I want to get coolant. I have not added any since I have had her. I know that in most cases, special coolant is used for the vanagons (special as in that it is not the run of the mill stuff you pick up at O'Reil's) How do I determine what is in there >now? Just color?  What if I mixed (accidentally of course.)

Jeremy, if you do not know the coolant history of the van, I would recommend flushing and putting in new phosphate free coolant. You CAN buy the blue stuff from VW, for mucho bucks. Or, you can buy a phosphate free coolant from any auto supply. Zerex makes a good one, but so do others. Just make sure that it is specified to be phosphate free. The Zerex coolant states on the label that it is phosphate free. Peak and some house brands simply say that the coolant is ethylene glycol with "proprietary additives." Who knows what is in there?

Coolant with phosphate additive may eventually corrode the heads, especially if the water used is high pH or is hard. Better to use distilled or deionized water to dilute the coolant to 50% coolant/water. I dilute at home and carry a gallon of the mix in the van. Interestingly, after getting the heads redone, I have never had to add coolant.

mcneely

From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 9:36 PM Subject: Re: '87 Westy - Oil Change, out of hibernation

0w-30 and 0w-40 are going to give noticeably different oil pressure results when warm so to warn against all mobil1 products based on the one experience with possibly the wrong viscosity choice is not good advice. Also you can’t compare the viscosity requirements of the water boxer to the Subaru engines. As for the factory recommendations with straight weight oils the limitations actually become start up and warm up operation. A straight 40 will be too thick to adequately flow and lubricate at low temperatures. Working on VW's when multi-weight oils were just becoming available I recall many a blown oil cooler on my parents bug or bus. When you look at those SAE ratings for multi weight oils the lower number refers to the viscosity at 40C and the upper is at 100C. So at operating temperature a *w-50 will have higher viscosity then a straight 40.  While *w-40 oil will normally work fine for the water boxer, when the day comes that extended high speed or load pushes oil temps above normal limits you will get a wakeup call from that oil pressure warning buzzer even on a healthy engine. The  *w-50 gives that viscosity edge the water boxer needs. As for the Subaru engines they are designed to run with thinner oils. Many newer cars now call for 5w-20 or 0w-20. As for ZDDP discussion Mobil 1, 15w-50 is higher ZDDP formulation. Look at the product details on their web site. I run the Mobil 1, 0w-40 European formulae on my VW's, Audi A8, 600SEL. The Water boxers get the 15w-50 except for daily driver use in Winter where I go down to the 0w-40.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of OlRivrRat Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:52 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: '87 Westy - Oil Change, out of hibernation

                Jeremy

        Just to add some options or confusion to the answer to your questions ~ this is from a couple of posts I made back in Nov'12 ~

      I just reread the LubricationSpecs in the OwnersManuals of both my 83.5 & 90 Westys & in fact in the SingleWeight columns SAE50 is not even mentioned ~ SAE40 is the recommended Oil for Temps from 70º on up off the end of the chart. SAE **w-50 is indicated in the MultiGrade columns but shares the Temp'Range with SAE **w-40. SAE10, 5w-30 & 5w-20 are even recommended under certain conditions. Certainly in an OldEngine there might be a need to run SAE50 under some Temp'  conditions but I would let my OilPressure be my guide not necessarily a manual that was written 22 - 29yrs ago. I would run nothing but 0w40 in my H2OBoxr if Valvoline made it but the thinest they go is 5w40 so that works for me. I know that Mobil1 comes in 0w40 but I just did an unscientific 3000mi test of Mob1 0w30 in my 90Westys EJ25 & experienced some goofy O'P's so I won't ever use or recommend Mobil1 again.

      In your research you should put Valvoline on your list ( I don't work for them ~ Just like their stuff )

2 main points

1. Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/ phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the motor oil where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger car motor oils including SynPower -- the only synthetic oil that offers this additive.

2. The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car enthusiasts is actually short for Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or ZDDP. Its primary role is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between engine parts by forming a protective film. Despite being referred to as zinc, this additive actually contains zinc and phosphorus, with phosphorus performing the anti-wear function in the motor oil with zinc.

Links to & excerpts from

http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/full-synthetic-motor-oil/

15.    How does Valvoline's SynPower formula protect against wear?

SynPower full synthetic motor oil is formulated with a balance of high quality ingredients such as detergents, dispersants, antioxidants, friction modifiers, anti-wear additives and premium base oils that work together to provide exceptional protection against engine stress and wear.

Valvoline's proprietary formulation includes special anti-wear chemistry. Valvoline's low impact ZDDP allows phosphorus in the anti- wear additive to stay in the oil longer than other leading synthetic motor oils. Phosphorous bonds to metal parts in the engine to form a "sacrificial" layer that helps protect against friction and metal wear in the engine.

SynPower uses premium detergents and dispersants that protect against deposits and sludge to keep engines clean. SynPower's premium full synthetic base oils and additives hold up to extreme temperatures to provide increased protection for your engine.

http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/

2.      What is motor oil with zinc?

The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car enthusiasts is actually short for Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or ZDDP. Its primary role is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between engine parts by forming a protective film. Despite being referred to as zinc, this additive actually contains zinc and phosphorus, with phosphorus performing the anti-wear function in the motor oil with zinc.

3.      Why is it important to have the zinc/phosphorus levels in  motor oil changed?

With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers have tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one of several factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets standards for motor oil with zinc. The current API standard is SM which replaced the previous SL classification. Because phosphorus can poison a vehicle's emission system, the level of zinc is lower for current motor oil.

4.      What is the controversy surrounding the amount of zinc in  motor oil?

Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of zinc in SM motor oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new motor oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible. This has resulted in the widely accepted belief that modern motor oil is not adequate to protect older engines.

5.      What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?

      Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue: 1. Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and straight 60. 2. Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/ phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the motor oil where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger car motor oils including SynPower -- the only synthetic oil that offers this additive.

6.      Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or "Not Street Legal" racing  oil?

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent of zinc and .12 percent of phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil which contains .14 percent of zinc and .13 percent of phosphorus.

                                                      ORR ~ DeanB

PS ~ as far as filters go ~ I use Wix ~ claimed by a lot of folks to be the best ~ I get them from NAPA in the form of NAPA Gold ~ have used them on all my cars for a lot of years with no complaints ~ there have been some times that I have used the higher end Frams & have never had a problem with them either.

On 11 Mar , 2013, at 2:17 PM, Jeremy Stovin wrote:

> Thanks again for the insight. > > You listed a variety of filters, but I did not get which one you > personally like. > > Jeremy >

-- David McNeely


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