Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:44:10 -0600
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Fwd: '87 Westy - Oil Change, out of hibernation
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> On 12 Mar , 2013, at 10:36 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>
>> 0w-30 and 0w-40 are going to give noticeably different oil pressure
>> results
>> when warm
>
> Don't see anything in what I wrote that that even pertains to
>
>> so to warn against all mobil1 products
>
> I made no warning against all Mobil1 products ~ I said that I won't
> ever use or recommend Mobil1 again.
>
>> based on the one experience
>
> Experience explaination ~>
>
> With 1 exception my VDubarus EJ25 has always had Valvoline 5w30 oil
> in it ~ At an O'C' I did back in Dec'2011 I tried Mobil1
> AdvancedFullSynthetic 0w30 & was surprised & dissapointed in the
> performance of that oil ~ During warmup periods the OilPress' was in
> the mid 90sPSI which is about 10-15PSI higher than Valvo' & when hot
> the OilPress' @ Idle would drop to 4-6PSI which is about 10PSI less
> than Valvo' & @ Cruise it would run 10-15PSI lower than Valvo' ~ I
> am now back on Valvoline & doubt that I will ever switch again. I
> used Valvo' 5w30 Conventional for the 5 O'C's I did during the EJ25s
> 1st 10KMis as it was a "fresh" ShortBlock & then switched to Valvo'
> FullSynthetic 5w30 ~ I have never had the OilWarningLight come on
>
>> with possibly the wrong viscosity choice is not good advice.
>
> My EJ25 calls for 5w30 so why would you think that 0w30 would
> "possibly be the wrong viscosity choice" ~ BobTheOilGuy got me
> looking into 0w** oils & the info I have found so far has made me a
> believer ~
>
> http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/
>
> http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-102/
>
>> Also you can’t compare the viscosity requirements of the water
>> boxer to the Subaru engines.
>
> I agree completely with that ~ Don't see anything in what I wrote
> that does that
>
>> As for the factory recommendations with straight weight oils the
>> limitations
>> actually become start up and warm up operation. A straight 40 will
>> be too
>> thick to adequately flow and lubricate at low temperatures. Working
>> on VW's
>> when multi-weight oils were just becoming available I recall many a
>> blown
>> oil cooler on my parents bug or bus. When you look at those SAE
>> ratings for
>> multi weight oils the lower number refers to the viscosity at 40C
>> and the
>> upper is at 100C. So at operating temperature a *w-50 will have
>> higher
>> viscosity then a straight 40.
>
> Don't see anything in what I wrote that is contrary to that
>
>> While *w-40 oil will normally work fine for the water boxer, when
>> the day comes that extended high speed or load pushes
>> oil temps above normal limits you will get a wakeup call from that
>> oil
>> pressure warning buzzer even on a healthy engine.
>
> In the 136,000mis that I have run up on 2 diff' H2OBxrs I have
> never used anything heavier than 10w40 & on the 2.1
> in my 90Westy, I have actually run 10w30 & 5w30 & have never seen
> any problem OilPressures ~ in fact the 5w30 took me from
> Albuquerque to Rockford, Ill in 2009 with 2months worth of Gear &
> Tools & a Canoe on top in under 24hrs & then on up to Ely, Minn
> & back to Rockford & back to Ely & back to Rockford with Temps &
> Pressures looking just fine & that 2.1 was still running quite
> sweet the day I pulled it to put in the EJ25
>
>> The *w-50 gives that viscosity edge the water boxer needs.
>
> I guess if you are talking about a really high milage H2OBxr that
> has not been well maintained that is probably true ~ otherwise I
> have not seen any info that would cause me to lean toward that
> philosophy.
>
> ORR ~ DeanB
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf Of
>> OlRivrRat
>> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:52 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: '87 Westy - Oil Change, out of hibernation
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>> Just to add some options or confusion to the answer to your
>> questions ~ this is from a couple of posts I made back in Nov'12 ~
>>
>> I just reread the LubricationSpecs in the OwnersManuals of
>> both my
>> 83.5 & 90 Westys & in fact in the SingleWeight columns SAE50 is not
>> even
>> mentioned ~ SAE40 is the recommended Oil for Temps from 70º on up
>> off the
>> end of the chart. SAE **w-50 is indicated in the MultiGrade columns
>> but
>> shares the Temp'Range with SAE **w-40. SAE10, 5w-30 &
>> 5w-20 are even recommended under certain conditions. Certainly in an
>> OldEngine there might be a need to run SAE50 under some Temp'
>> conditions but I would let my OilPressure be my guide not
>> necessarily a
>> manual that was written 22 - 29yrs ago. I would run nothing but
>> 0w40 in my
>> H2OBoxr if Valvoline made it but the thinest they go is 5w40 so
>> that works
>> for me. I know that Mobil1 comes in 0w40 but I just did an
>> unscientific
>> 3000mi test of Mob1 0w30 in my 90Westys EJ25 & experienced some
>> goofy O'P's
>> so I won't ever use or recommend Mobil1 again.
>>
>>
>> In your research you should put Valvoline on your list ( I
>> don't work
>> for them ~ Just like their stuff )
>>
>> 2 main points
>>
>> 1. Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/
>> phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the
>> motor oil
>> where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic
>> converter.
>> Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across
>> its entire
>> line of passenger car motor oils including SynPower -- the only
>> synthetic
>> oil that offers this additive.
>>
>> 2. The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car
>> enthusiasts
>> is actually short for Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or ZDDP. Its
>> primary role
>> is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between engine parts by
>> forming a
>> protective film. Despite being referred to as zinc, this additive
>> actually
>> contains zinc and phosphorus, with phosphorus performing the anti-
>> wear
>> function in the motor oil with zinc.
>>
>>
>> Links to & excerpts from
>>
>> http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/full-synthetic-motor-oil/
>>
>> 15. How does Valvoline's SynPower formula protect against wear?
>>
>> SynPower full synthetic motor oil is formulated with a balance of
>> high
>> quality ingredients such as detergents, dispersants, antioxidants,
>> friction
>> modifiers, anti-wear additives and premium base oils that work
>> together to
>> provide exceptional protection against engine stress and wear.
>>
>> Valvoline's proprietary formulation includes special anti-wear
>> chemistry.
>> Valvoline's low impact ZDDP allows phosphorus in the anti- wear
>> additive to
>> stay in the oil longer than other leading synthetic motor oils.
>> Phosphorous
>> bonds to metal parts in the engine to form a "sacrificial" layer
>> that helps
>> protect against friction and metal wear in the engine.
>>
>> SynPower uses premium detergents and dispersants that protect against
>> deposits and sludge to keep engines clean. SynPower's premium full
>> synthetic
>> base oils and additives hold up to extreme temperatures to provide
>> increased
>> protection for your engine.
>>
>>
>> http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/
>>
>> 2. What is motor oil with zinc?
>>
>> The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car
>> enthusiasts is
>> actually short for Zinc DialkylDithiophosphates or ZDDP. Its
>> primary role is
>> to prevent metal-to-metal contact between engine parts by forming a
>> protective film. Despite being referred to as zinc, this additive
>> actually
>> contains zinc and phosphorus, with phosphorus performing the anti-
>> wear
>> function in the motor oil with zinc.
>>
>> 3. Why is it important to have the zinc/phosphorus levels in
>> motor oil
>> changed?
>>
>> With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers
>> have
>> tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one
>> of several
>> factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute
>> (API) sets standards for motor oil with zinc. The current API
>> standard is SM
>> which replaced the previous SL classification. Because phosphorus
>> can poison
>> a vehicle's emission system, the level of zinc is lower for current
>> motor
>> oil.
>>
>> 4. What is the controversy surrounding the amount of zinc in
>> motor oil?
>>
>> Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower
>> levels of
>> zinc in SM motor oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-
>> rod and
>> flat-tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new motor oil
>> classifications are intended to be backward compatible. This has
>> resulted in
>> the widely accepted belief that modern motor oil is not adequate to
>> protect
>> older engines.
>>
>> 5. What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?
>>
>> Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:
>> 1. Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor
>> oil with
>> a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and
>> street-legal
>> applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and
>> flat tappet
>> engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono
>> viscosity
>> grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and
>> straight
>> 60.
>> 2. Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/
>> phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the
>> motor oil
>> where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic
>> converter.
>> Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across
>> its entire
>> line of passenger car motor oils including SynPower -- the only
>> synthetic
>> oil that offers this additive.
>>
>> 6. Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or "Not Street Legal"
>> racing
>> oil?
>>
>> Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent of zinc and .12
>> percent of
>> phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil
>> which
>> contains .14 percent of zinc and .13 percent of phosphorus.
>>
>> ORR ~ DeanB
>>
>> PS ~ as far as filters go ~ I use Wix ~ claimed by a lot of folks
>> to be the
>> best ~ I get them from NAPA in the form of NAPA Gold ~ have used
>> them on all
>> my cars for a lot of years with no complaints ~ there have been
>> some times
>> that I have used the higher end Frams & have never had a problem
>> with them
>> either.
>>
>>
>> On 11 Mar , 2013, at 2:17 PM, Jeremy Stovin wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks again for the insight.
>>>
>>> You listed a variety of filters, but I did not get which one you
>>> personally like.
>>>
>>> Jeremy
>>>
>>
>
