Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:34:28 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Beyond Vanagon-Keeping older vehicles!
In-Reply-To: <514DE1DB.2000007@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Very nicely stated John.
Vanagons do meet people's needs quite well,
and no they are not New Vehicles..
and most interestingly ......there is no comprable new vehicle quite
like a Vanagon.
Plus they don't cost what a new vehicle costs unless you are buying a
high end syncro or something like that ..
So very pratical overall for many people.
People do not own them 'so they can work on it a lot' ..Dave.
the own them for their usefullness, and keeping them going and upgrading
is just part of the package and joy of the whole experience.
in that regard, I suppose some people might own a nice say..... 30 foot
sailboat, and working on it would never occur to them ..except repairs ..
yet for many , improving it and taking good care of it a very enjoyable
part of the experience.
Same for vanagons for people that like that part of the experience.
People who just want 'an applicance that works'....with far less soul
and cachet than Vangons have, should own something like a Toyota.
There is 'an Experience' that goes with owning a Vanagon ..
a world-wide familyeven.
Those that just want a practical van would do well to say ...own a
newish Ford Econoline .
It's a van, it works. Where's the special excitement ?
The sort of thing is what owning a Vanagon about is ..... ...it's
passion, it's an Experience ..
it's a family, it's a way of life.
Come to think of it..
throughout the history of VW inthe US .....starting in the 50's and
really gaining momentum in the 60's ......it's their need for being
worked onmore often than many carsthat made this whole familyenthusiasts
thing take off. If not for that facotr the famous book by John Muir,
..the Idiot's Guidefor VW Repair ( not the exact title ) would never
have been written, and whole legions of VW lovers never would have taken
off..
So it is actually their need for repair and care itself,
that is a factor in the 'family factor' and love of VW's , including
Vanagons.
Some people should own Fords, Chevy's and Toyota's ....or some
'appliance' type boring car or van.
some people 'get it' about VW's and Vanagons especiallyand it works for
them. I will always say Vangaons need special care and understanding
....and they are worth it too !
Heck ..I think it would be very boring to just 'drive' them. Taking
care of them is part ofthe joyof the whole thing.
scott
www.turbovans.com
On 3/23/2013 10:09 AM, JRodgers wrote:
> I keep tintop Vanagons primarily because of the utility of the vehicle
> that meets my purposes. It's physical size is handy in downtown/uptown
> traffic, it's big enough other drivers go out of their way to steer
> clear of you yet it fits into low parking decks, it has a picture
> window for a windshield, D&P seats are high and comfortable, it
> maneuvers easily, the interior configures easily for a variety of
> purposes. I have hauled a 1000 lb pallet of plaster, 4X8 sheets of
> plywood, 12 foot step ladders - all inside out of the weather. I've
> folded the back seat down for a bed, and camped for weeks in the van
> during stays in Alaska, traveling the Alaska Highway as well as points
> West, and camping in the South. And, it's my daily driver.
>
> There is not another vehicle out there today that meets my needs as
> handily as the tintop vanagon. For the moment, I have three - two '88
> GL's and a '91 Carat which is a project vehicle. One of the '88's will
> be sold shortly.
>
> But these vehicles meet my needs so perfectly I can't see replacing them
> with anything currently out there.
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
> On 3/23/2013 9:52 AM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>> And for those of us to whom a vehicle is simply a utilitarian device,
>> one that requires all that (or not even all that) to keep it going is
>> no longer utilitarian. I keep mine because I haven't found an
>> alternative I can accept. I want one the same size, same camping
>> capability, small engine, reasonable fuel efficiency, that I can use
>> without having to constantly work on it, hire work on it, be
>> concerned about getting stuck out in the boonies. The fact that this
>> one is a VW, or that there is romance attached to them .............
>> . And certainly, I would not prefer to have the romance of breakdowns
>> in the middle of no where.
>>
>> One thing I definitely have learned on this list. What some like
>> about the Vanagon is constantly working on it. For them, what other
>> reason is there to have a vehicle?
>>
>> mcneely
>>
>> ---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> With proper care almost any vehicle can be kept "forever". The key
>>> is cost
>>> effectiveness. At some point you also have to consider obsolescence.
>>> The Vanagon is unique in its size and functional capabilities but was
>>> already obsolete as they were even being introduced. Let's face some
>>> facts.
>>> They couldn't sell these things to the general public then. I
>>> purchased my
>>> Syncro Westy in February 1988. It was sitting on the dealer's lot since
>>> September 1987. They dropped the price $6K and helped me finance it.
>>> They
>>> were really anxious to see it go.
>>>
>>> One has to really consider the total cost of ownership on both a
>>> cost per
>>> mile and cost per year especially with labor rates pushing $100/hr
>>> plus.
>>> While an engine or transmission replacement may not justify replacing a
>>> vehicle either of these repairs is often just a beginning. With
>>> today's low
>>> interest rates many vehicles can be had for reasonable monthly
>>> costs. Foe
>>> those that want/need to go the RV camping route the interest on
>>> those loans
>>> is even tax deductible. A $3,000 transmission-clutch job is really
>>> $300/month for a year. More if you have to use a credit card to pay
>>> for it.
>>> Next there will be that engine work, water pump, suspension, etc.
>>> This is
>>> why many people lease. Bring it home, use it and return it before
>>> that first
>>> major repair. Heck, let it go before it even needs tires or brakes.
>>>
>>> In our group the survivors are those that learn to do most work on
>>> their own
>>> or partner with a mechanic-shop willing to work cheap. We don't even
>>> want to
>>> pay normal prices for our parts. Unfortunately most of the quality
>>> OEM parts
>>> are becoming nonexistent because no one wanted to pay for them.
>>> Original
>>> exhaust and rear brakes shoes are just 2 examples.
>>>
>>> As for obsolescence, our vehicles make more pollution then most,
>>> have few
>>> passive safety systems, and awful heating/ventilation/air conditioning
>>> systems. Most all have been modified in some way.
>>>
>>> As for me, I am addicted. Even though I have an RV, FUN BUS is going no
>>> where. It has been at my brother's place for over a year for Body
>>> and paint
>>> work. It is looking real good. I am upgrading the tires/wheels
>>> again. Adding
>>> the front big brake kit. When it comes home I will be repairing the
>>> tranny
>>> again(4th time) and rebuilding the suspension. I expect that after
>>> all this
>>> the engine has to say no more but I will try to push it to at least
>>> 275K and
>>> if still going maybe 300K. It also needs the front engine pipe and a
>>> muffler. VW will be supplying the muffler under their lifetime
>>> warranty. Oh
>>> and the viscous coupling has seen better days. Last time I drove it
>>> in snow
>>> there was very little push to the front wheels.
>>>
>>> I won't even start talking about the 87 passenger Syncro.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Don Hanson
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:33 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Beyond Vanagon
>>>
>>> I don't see any reason, other than the auto manufacturer's lobby
>>> and our
>>> government, that we can't keep Vanagons viable until the last fossil
>>> fuel is
>>> gone...I mean, the basic chassis should last if it isn't in a super
>>> salty road state for it's whole life. They'll probably legislate
>>> us off
>>> the road soon....They are already doing that with diesel trucks (big
>>> rigs)
>>> in some states...Older ones not allowed....gotta buy a new one....
>>>
>>> It certainly seems like you'd have better value if you simply
>>> 'revise' the
>>> Vanagon continually rather than keep starting over with brand new
>>> vehicles,
>>> for a big price. Vehicles that are now configured to make money
>>> for the
>>> car manufacturers and their dealers....with 'required'
>>> service, extra fee for warranty, remove the motor to change the
>>> spark plugs,
>>> dealer-exclusive service ports, etc etc .
>>> You could build a pretty effective (and attractive) Vanagon for
>>> $85 grand
>>> or whatever an Airstream Sprinter must cost.....and if you put that
>>> kinda
>>> money in your Vanagon, it would be something you know would
>>> last...you could
>>> make it really pretty stout and efficient for that money and use all
>>> the
>>> best parts...Then, in ten or 15years, when your Dodge or Mercedes
>>> chassis
>>> camper was ready for replacement again at another $100k
>>> (inflation)....you
>>> could again rework your antique Vanagon with that kinda dough and
>>> again, do
>>> better than buying from the showroom floor...
>>>
>>> That being said, I'd like one of those Nissans..I have owned
>>> that brand
>>> in the past and they are dead-nuts dependable. I've see some older
>>> Canadian diesel ones I like and the newer 1/2 ton(?) ones I see more of
>>> lately look a lot more appropriate for an everyday driver than the big
>>> sprinter ones...Since I am just a worker, I haven't looked seriously
>>> at what
>>> is really offered ....
>>> Happy friday
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
>>> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> HI Dave..
>>>> I believe in a whole other philosophy.
>>>> I also just *love* preserving things, treating and preventing rust
>>>> ....fixing things ..
>>>> like 'working a vanagon, or 'one's vanagon' is not a bad thing .
>>>> or something to be avoided to do 'when you have to ' ..it's a fun
>>>> rewarding thing to do. .
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> David McNeely
>>
>
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