All, Has anyone ever used the starter testing at your FLAPS? I realize it's not the same as being in the transmission itself due to support but it's free and that's a good thing. Just collecting info before I crawl back under for the millionth time and pull that thing. Being that I'm getting good voltage at all the points and can't seem to find any problems with the switch, wires (yes, I put new heavy duty ends by the wires at the solenoid), the neutral safety switch, and it bumps over when I jump the terminals, I can only assume that the chance of a POS rebuilt (even it if is Bosch) from another FLAPS is the problem. Wouldn't be the first time someone got a "bad" new starter from those joints. On a side note, I have all the wires, relay, and connectors to do the classic hot start mod but 1.) I need to know and want to fix the *actual* problem before I put a band-aid on it and 2.) I want it to work like it should *before* I mod something to "help" it out. I'm not against going to an actual starter specialist (yes, we actually still have one of those here in town) but I try to avoid wasting time taking crap from Jethro and Billy Bob for bringing in something from a vehicle they can't even spell the name of let alone something that's NOT a "Ferd F-150!" Thanks, TJ
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 08:03:10 -0400 > From: David Milo <dellaone@GMAIL.COM> > Subject: Re: Starting problem or startER problem > > For me, it turned out that I did indeed have a bummer starter from a local > FLAPS that was a year and half old, and it drove me crazy. The first 6 > months of operation, it was fine, but began to refuse to crank on an > increasingly frequent basis. After much electrical troubleshooting with no > significant findings, I ran a wire siamesed into the starter solenoid > trigger connection and back to the hot wire at the alternator, with an > insulated wire nut on the end. When It wouldn't crank, I simply touched the > spare wire to the alternator hot post, and it would crank every time (same > idea as T.J. using a screwdriver to bridge the solenoid. The starter > eventually began to not respond to this work around; thats when I knew the > starter solenoid was the culprit. A new starter was obtained from an online > vendor, and voila, it would start almost every time in park, but it would > always start if it was in neutral. A new spring loaded starter safety > switch contact (the one in the selector lever, which is now available again > from an online vendor) fixed the problem for good. > > Good hunting, > > Dave > > > On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Jonce Fancher <streetbugs@frontier.com > >wrote: > > > Hi TJ > > sorry if I repeat things you may have already done, But In my years > > of dinking around with air cooled VWs and the Water vans, I have > > found a few things that Might help. Clean the area where the Starter > > meets the bell housing for grounding the starter, Also the slip on > > connector to the Spade on the solenoid mush grab on real tight. Make > > sure the cables to the starter are shiny as a rain deers nose. I have > > also run a ground cable to the starter Bolt just to increase the > > grounding. As well as the battery terminals on the battery clean the > > connections for the cable and ends as well as battery and the battery > > ground in the box. > > I also did have an issue once or actually a few times, the connector > > to the actual switch, But this was on early splits. We did run a new > > wire since the resistance in the wire was a bit to much. Not sure if > > any of this will help. > > > > Good luck. > > Jonce > > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 09:10:16 -0400 > From: Jonce Fancher <streetbugs@FRONTIER.COM> > Subject: Re: Starting problem or startER problem > > Another thing I did on my 56 single cab. YEARS ago was install a > small push button in the engine compartment that went to the solenoid. > You could just turn the ignition on with the key. Then open the > engine lid push the button and bang. Motor started. > I put it in mainly to adjust the timing quickly to start it after a > points, Carb, fuel pump swap so I didn't have to wander up front to > bump it over. > You could put the switch most anywhere you want. But I would find the > issue. My 66 squareback had the old flip a switch push a button for > years since I could never find a new ignition switch for years. > Finally found one and swapped out everything back to stock. > All in good fun. > Good Luck. > > Jonce > > >All, > > Instead of boring you with a long drawn out story (which, I will no > doubt > >confuse most of you), I'll list the facts: > > > >87 GL Automatic > > > >1. I have a good battery. Two actually. Hooked to a charger while > trying > >to turn over the engine. Details; One brand new Optima and one used > Optima > >both read 12v on a meter and hooked in parallel. On top of that, a > battery > >charger set to 10A setting (EXCEPT while checking leads for voltage on any > >circuit) is running from before I start till after I finish. > > > >2. New ignition switch. Details; jumped #30 and # 50 at the switch and > >got nothing. OK, I got a hot paperclip but aside from that, nothing but > >the *slight* electrical click from the back of the van. Same exact sound > I > >get with the ignition switch. > > > >3. Neutral safety switch checked good as the times it was actually > turning > >over with the key, the moment I moved the gear selector out of P or N, it > >stopped cranking and it NEVER cranks unless it's in P or N. Ran it > through > >the entire range repeatedly with no change to either of those facts. > > > >4. All engine grounds were done and today I shined the transmission > ground > >brighter than Rudolph's nose on Christmas eve. It should last me another > >26 years. How do I know? Well, it made NO change after I cleaned it with > >a wire brush in a drill so even with the same number of years of corrosion > >since it rolled off the line, the boys in the factory did it right the > >first time so it obviously was not an issue without my cleaning. Didn't > >hurt but didn't help either. > > > >5. I got 12V at the solenoid end of #50 when my helper turned the key to > >the start position. No change while I wiggled the daylights out of the > >wires. Well, until I got some dirt or stuff in my face from shaking > things > >so long and hard. No, don't even think about going there or the Mods will > >eat you for lunch. :) > > > >6. Starter *will* rotate and engine does start when I jump small terminal > >and large terminal on the solenoid with a screwdriver or similar. Every > >time and all the time. > > > >7. *Very* seldom, it will rotate and start with the key. In fact today, > >ONLY after I bumped it with a screwdriver and I wanted to test something, > >it started several times in a row but then after several times, just > clicks > >and that dumb look on my face. > > > >8. One time tonight, after jumping the ignition switch with the paperclip > >(and getting nothing), I put the connection back on the switch and when I > >turned the key, it started a few more times (3) and then, again, no more. > > > >9 Bosch rebuilt starter from FLAPS. SAME issue before or after the old > >starter came out and this one came in. Starter is about 1.5 years old. > > > >It can't be a hot start issue since it never gets a chance to get hot and > >not start. I have one last thought about what it could be but I don't > want > >to put thoughts in anyone's head. > > > >Anyone got any ideas as to what it might be, what I might have missed or > >what I could check now? > > > >Thanks, > > > >TJ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 09:36:34 -0400 > From: Steve Cotsford <cotsford@AOL.COM> > Subject: Re: Starting problem or startER problem > > Something I did to solve a similar problem on an old beetle. > > I used a foglamp relay to switch the direct power to the starter = > solenoid in close proximity to it. Then I just used the starter switch = > to power on the foglamp relay. > > Worked with no more problems. > > Steve= > > |
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