Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 21:03:40 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Starter Testing @ FLAPS WAS: Starting problem or startER
problem
In-Reply-To: <51632B9C.7020602@turbovans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I know the difference between our Bosch starters being rebuilt and the Bosch
brand of remanufactured(?) parts. I can recognize the black box from far
away and know how to process their warranty claims including when they used
to offer towing! Those rebuilds don't come from Germany.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2013 4:42 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Starter Testing @ FLAPS WAS: Starting problem or startER
problem
I've been lucky then.
Never a bad Bosch rebuilt starter in many years.
Has to be in the Bosch box ..
it can't be a 'rebuilt Boschstarter'.
it has to be a Bosch Rebuilt Bosch Starter.
and those guys that say ..
"yeah, our company is the same company that rebuilds them for Bosch ."
No.
On 4/8/2013 1:27 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> Over the years I have had a share of bad from the box or fail a short
> while afterward starters even from Bosch. These are assembly line
> rebuilds and maybe they are the same units re-boxed by others. From
> experience the weakness is the contacts in the solenoid. They either
> corrode or even come lose causing intermittent operation. Many years
> ago I had a customer with a Diesel Automatic Rabbit. Did that starter
> 7 times in ~ 1.5 years before getting one that worked right, all the time.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> Behalf Of TJ Hemrick
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 3:03 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Starter Testing @ FLAPS WAS: Starting problem or startER
> problem
>
> All,
> Has anyone ever used the starter testing at your FLAPS? I realize
> it's not the same as being in the transmission itself due to support
> but it's free and that's a good thing. Just collecting info before I
> crawl back under for the millionth time and pull that thing. Being
> that I'm getting good voltage at all the points and can't seem to find
> any problems with the switch, wires (yes, I put new heavy duty ends by
> the wires at the solenoid), the neutral safety switch, and it bumps
> over when I jump the terminals, I can only assume that the chance of a
> POS rebuilt (even it if is Bosch) from another FLAPS is the problem.
> Wouldn't be the first time someone got a "bad" new starter from those
> joints. On a side note, I have all the wires, relay, and connectors
> to do the classic hot start mod but
> 1.) I need to know and want to fix the *actual* problem before I put a
> band-aid on it and 2.) I want it to work like it should *before* I
> mod something to "help" it out.
>
> I'm not against going to an actual starter specialist (yes, we
> actually still have one of those here in town) but I try to avoid
> wasting time taking crap from Jethro and Billy Bob for bringing in
> something from a vehicle they can't even spell the name of let alone
something that's NOT a "Ferd F-150!"
>
> Thanks,
>
> TJ
>
>
> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 08:03:10 -0400
>
>> From: David Milo <dellaone@GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Starting problem or startER problem
>>
>> For me, it turned out that I did indeed have a bummer starter from a
>> local FLAPS that was a year and half old, and it drove me crazy. The
>> first 6 months of operation, it was fine, but began to refuse to
>> crank on an increasingly frequent basis. After much electrical
>> troubleshooting with no significant findings, I ran a wire siamesed
>> into the starter solenoid trigger connection and back to the hot wire
>> at the alternator, with an insulated wire nut on the end. When It
>> wouldn't crank, I simply touched the spare wire to the alternator hot
>> post, and it would crank every time (same idea as T.J. using a
>> screwdriver to bridge the solenoid. The starter eventually began to
>> not respond to this work around; thats when I knew the starter
>> solenoid was the culprit. A new starter was obtained from an online
>> vendor, and voila, it would start almost every time in park, but it
>> would always start if it was in neutral. A new spring loaded starter
>> safety switch contact (the one in the selector lever, which is now
> available again from an online vendor) fixed the problem for good.
>> Good hunting,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Jonce Fancher
>> <streetbugs@frontier.com
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi TJ
>>> sorry if I repeat things you may have already done, But In my years
>>> of dinking around with air cooled VWs and the Water vans, I have
>>> found a few things that Might help. Clean the area where the Starter
>>> meets the bell housing for grounding the starter, Also the slip on
>>> connector to the Spade on the solenoid mush grab on real tight. Make
>>> sure the cables to the starter are shiny as a rain deers nose. I
>>> have also run a ground cable to the starter Bolt just to increase
>>> the grounding. As well as the battery terminals on the battery clean
>>> the connections for the cable and ends as well as battery and the
>>> battery ground in the box.
>>> I also did have an issue once or actually a few times, the connector
>>> to the actual switch, But this was on early splits. We did run a new
>>> wire since the resistance in the wire was a bit to much. Not sure if
>>> any of this will help.
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>> Jonce
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 09:10:16 -0400
>> From: Jonce Fancher <streetbugs@FRONTIER.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Starting problem or startER problem
>>
>> Another thing I did on my 56 single cab. YEARS ago was install a
>> small push button in the engine compartment that went to the solenoid.
>> You could just turn the ignition on with the key. Then open the
>> engine lid push the button and bang. Motor started.
>> I put it in mainly to adjust the timing quickly to start it after a
>> points, Carb, fuel pump swap so I didn't have to wander up front to
>> bump it over.
>> You could put the switch most anywhere you want. But I would find the
>> issue. My 66 squareback had the old flip a switch push a button for
>> years since I could never find a new ignition switch for years.
>> Finally found one and swapped out everything back to stock.
>> All in good fun.
>> Good Luck.
>>
>> Jonce
>>
>>> All,
>>> Instead of boring you with a long drawn out story (which, I will
>>> no
>> doubt
>>> confuse most of you), I'll list the facts:
>>>
>>> 87 GL Automatic
>>>
>>> 1. I have a good battery. Two actually. Hooked to a charger while
>> trying
>>> to turn over the engine. Details; One brand new Optima and one used
>> Optima
>>> both read 12v on a meter and hooked in parallel. On top of that, a
>> battery
>>> charger set to 10A setting (EXCEPT while checking leads for voltage
>>> on any
>>> circuit) is running from before I start till after I finish.
>>>
>>> 2. New ignition switch. Details; jumped #30 and # 50 at the switch
>>> and got nothing. OK, I got a hot paperclip but aside from that,
>>> nothing but the *slight* electrical click from the back of the van.
>>> Same exact sound
>> I
>>> get with the ignition switch.
>>>
>>> 3. Neutral safety switch checked good as the times it was actually
>> turning
>>> over with the key, the moment I moved the gear selector out of P or
>>> N, it stopped cranking and it NEVER cranks unless it's in P or N.
>>> Ran it
>> through
>>> the entire range repeatedly with no change to either of those facts.
>>>
>>> 4. All engine grounds were done and today I shined the transmission
>> ground
>>> brighter than Rudolph's nose on Christmas eve. It should last me
>>> another
>>> 26 years. How do I know? Well, it made NO change after I cleaned
>>> it with a wire brush in a drill so even with the same number of
>>> years of corrosion since it rolled off the line, the boys in the
>>> factory did it right the first time so it obviously was not an issue
>>> without my cleaning. Didn't hurt but didn't help either.
>>>
>>> 5. I got 12V at the solenoid end of #50 when my helper turned the
>>> key to the start position. No change while I wiggled the daylights
>>> out of the wires. Well, until I got some dirt or stuff in my face
>> >from shaking
>> things
>>> so long and hard. No, don't even think about going there or the
>>> Mods will eat you for lunch. :)
>>>
>>> 6. Starter *will* rotate and engine does start when I jump small
>>> terminal and large terminal on the solenoid with a screwdriver or
>>> similar. Every time and all the time.
>>>
>>> 7. *Very* seldom, it will rotate and start with the key. In fact
>>> today, ONLY after I bumped it with a screwdriver and I wanted to
>>> test something, it started several times in a row but then after
>>> several times, just
>> clicks
>>> and that dumb look on my face.
>>>
>>> 8. One time tonight, after jumping the ignition switch with the
>>> paperclip (and getting nothing), I put the connection back on the
>>> switch and when I turned the key, it started a few more times (3)
>>> and
> then, again, no more.
>>> 9 Bosch rebuilt starter from FLAPS. SAME issue before or after the
>>> old starter came out and this one came in. Starter is about 1.5
>>> years
> old.
>>> It can't be a hot start issue since it never gets a chance to get
>>> hot and not start. I have one last thought about what it could be
>>> but I don't
>> want
>>> to put thoughts in anyone's head.
>>>
>>> Anyone got any ideas as to what it might be, what I might have
>>> missed or what I could check now?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> TJ
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 09:36:34 -0400
>> From: Steve Cotsford <cotsford@AOL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Starting problem or startER problem
>>
>> Something I did to solve a similar problem on an old beetle.
>>
>> I used a foglamp relay to switch the direct power to the starter =
>> solenoid in close proximity to it. Then I just used the starter
>> switch = to power on the foglamp relay.
>>
>> Worked with no more problems.
>>
>> Steve=
>>
>>
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