Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 13:57:23 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Possible...Overheating
In-Reply-To: <20130423164634.DIG49.84726.imail@eastrmwml303>
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I know a guy ..
a real college professor . Was a vanagon owner too. He asked me to help
him check his Subaru car brake lights.
So I'm at the controls..
you know the drill ...one person says what they are doing ..the other
person says if the lights are working.
I'm asking him to tell me if the brake lights are working..
he has to tell me that he honestly does not know what to look for, and
cannot tell if the brake lights are workingor not.
Licensed driver too. College professor.
an extreme case perhaps, but true story.
On 4/23/2013 1:46 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
> Interesting to me that so many folks find the expectations in higher education to be more than they are willing and able to tackle. Yet, the same people will fly in and attempt to rebuild a high tech machine like an automobile engine, then trust their lives and that of family and friends to the result. The latter impresses me, with three degrees and 40 years as a professor, as much more difficult. mcneely
>
> ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>> Of coursethere are.
>> There are thousands and millions of ways mistakes can be made.
>>
>> 'generally' ....rebuilding mistakes cause things more like oil
>> consumption, noises, oil pressure issues ..those sorts of things.
>> Even incorrect timing can cause overheathing ..or contribute to it is
>> more accureate.
>>
>> head fitted poorly ..on wbxr's you bet !
>> Not everyone does it ..but it's smart to test fit the heads on with just
>> the metal rings on top of the barrels..
>> and measure the cap for the outer water gasket.
>> That gap can be too big, or two small,
>> or even tilted.....like not the same all the way around.
>>
>> the first time I ever ran into that issue , some 20 yrs ago ...brand new
>> AMC head on one side of a 2.1 wbrx .......rubber gasket pinched out in
>> about a year ..
>> I researched it like crazy .......finally a dealer tech told me you
>> dry-fit the head to check that gab and it it's off ..
>> get this ...*try a different cylinder head* !!
>> ( which is true. )
>> but I was flabbergasted ...since standard fitting parts that allwork
>> right due to being built to the exact same dimensions is about a 100
>> year old idea in gunand car production.
>> Prior to stardanized parts guns and even cars were hand fitted part by part.
>> In something like 1918 ...
>> it was a big big deal when 3 Buicks or whatever were driven to an Expo
>> in NY and the 3 cars stripped down, all the parts jumbled and them put
>> back together.....an amazing feat at the time..
>>
>> so to find out that all waterboxer heads may not be made exactly right
>> to fit right ..
>> pretty dumb !
>> and .....no 'regular' engines have the issue that waterboxer heads have.
>> "Normal' cyinder heads are flat on the bottom. ...on virtually all
>> engines off all types ( not rotaries of course ) ..
>> so sealing on those is pretty straightforward.
>>
>> a waterboxer is a converted VW air-cooled design ..most obviously so.
>> the bottom of the head is not flat.
>> how much the outer rubber gasket is squeased depends on the head sitting
>> on the barrels just right ..
>> and the 'step distance' between the combusion chamber area of the head,
>> and the outer flat surface being exactly right, within a few thousands.
>>
>> so yeah....that area can be done poorly.
>> and ...talk about mistakes..
>> you know how I love to carry on about that ..I seethem constantlyin
>> engine, car , and vanagon repair.
>>
>> On the other hand .
>> I think it's *extremely* risky for people to turn out rebuilt units like
>> engines and transmissions...
>> for 'who know' whatever back yard mechanic or shop to install it
>> incorrectly, or with a half-glogged radiator or whatever. The idiot
>> factor is huge.
>> I talk with Ken at German Transaxle about that a lot ....they send
>> out a good unit..
>> and have almost no control over what someone does it.
>>
>> it's all fun though.
>> Scott
>>
>> On 4/23/2013 12:10 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>> hmmm..... . Aren't there things that can cause overheating that would be due to a bad rebuild? Heads badly fitted, for example. Just wondering. My expertise is on the low side. mcneely
>>>
>>> ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>>>> lol..
>>>> guess you haven't bought many used engines from junkyards.
>>>>
>>>> it's a round metal glue-on thing ...silver in color .. about the size of
>>>> a dime.
>>>> changes to dark color in the middle if temp gets too high.
>>>> Very common on any junkyard used engine.
>>>>
>>>> so if you have a problem and say 'hey ..that engine you sold me is no
>>>> good' ..
>>>> and they see their ( sometimes hidden a little ) heat tab has changed
>>>> color..
>>>> then they cansay 'dude, you overheated it.It's not on us. "
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/23/2013 11:24 AM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>>>>> What are these "melt tabs"? mcneely
>>>>>
>>>>> ---- Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>> No doubt you are fine, those tabs melt when the engine melts down. You probably had some boiling around the cylinders, but I don't think you caused any damage in a mile and a half. Just fix it and run it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of william landsman
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 10:45 AM
>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>> Subject: Possible...Overheating
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Today I was out driving (about 2 miles) and my alternator froze up and the belt broke.
>>>>>> I took off belt and did not think about the water-pump being run by the same belt, "other stuff on my mind" regardless I drove another 1.5 miles and then it hit me. Pulled over immediately and turned engine off.
>>>>>> Engine temp was still not up to normal operating temp as I had just started driving and it is currently below freezing where I live. The gauge was rising quickly before I shut it off in a safe location. Opened up engine compartment, I could hear water gurgling but nothing was spewing out anywhere and it had not hit a temp that caused the coolant to go from expansion tank to overflow tank.
>>>>>> Here are my questions.
>>>>>> 1. Have I ruined the motor...I did not see any coolant leaks anywhere.
>>>>>> 2. What temperature do the GoWesty Melt tabs actually melt and where are they located. (Just had a new engine installed recently...) 3. If the heads fail, would they leak immediately?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will get alternator and belts replaced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Is there anything I should watch out for when I do start it up next?
>>>>>> Thanks for any advice.
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ðŸŽ
>>>>> --
>>>>> David McNeely
>>>>>
>>> --
>>> David McNeely
>>>
> --
> David McNeely
>
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