Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 01:03:57 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Over heating issues, hose broke
In-Reply-To: <EABEC642650647D99FE629C0C85274E3@GaryPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sounds like you had some really great travel opportunities and life
experiences. I'm jealous!
One of the worst things that can happen to a cooling system is have small
leaks that are not addressed in a timely fashion. Making things worse is the
use of coolant without at least a 30% concentration of coolant. Here is why!
A leaking system has two deadly issues. Many parts of the engine are at much
higher temperatures then the bulk temperature of the coolant. The
combination of the antifreeze raising the boiling point and pressurized
system prevent the cooling solution from flash vaporizing at those hot
contact points. A leaking system may not be able to maintain adequate
pressure to prevent this. Sleeve engines take this real hard including the
head studs. Look up cylinder cavitation erosion for more details. For all
those studs that have corroded to the point of failure, this was the real
cause. Diesel engines with liners use special antifreezes with wetting
agents to further protect from this, (think water wetter).
As a system leaks the concentration of bad stuff such as excess minerals and
metallic deposits continues to increase and each time water is added so is
more dissolved oxygen just waiting to be driven out of the solution and make
a corrosive mess inside your engine. This is where all the white nasty
crunchy stuff in neglected cooling systems comes from.
Now for your compression test results, for a fairly young engine something
is happening for some cylinders to have a 30 psi compression difference. Yes
a leak down test should be performed to determine if that is a ring or valve
problem. I suspect intakes since the low cylinders are on the same side.
As for temperature gauge readings having the gauge read higher than normal
is not a sign of overheating. A healthy cooling system should be able to
work up 230 and maybe more. The fan running on low speed is normal for
extreme conditions. If it went into high speed and the temp continued to
climb than you have cause for concern. The blown head gasket is of concern
though, why? Sometimes they do just go. But your combination of hose
failures and other leaks could be symptoms of something else going on.
At this point I suggest good compression and leak down testing. No harm
using one of those inspection cameras to look at the pistons-valves. If you
really suspected over heating it may be a good idea to check the cylinder
head torque. If they have loosened that would explain combustion gasses into
the cooling system. If they cannot reach torque without twisting and feeling
like they may break it may be wise to pull the heads and replace the studs.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Gary Peebles
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 5:45 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Over heating issues, hose broke
I have been on the list for a couple of months now and trust that you guys
will have some good suggestions for me.
Short history, Paco our 88 Westy, was purchased in 2008. Our goal was to
get it ready for a trip to Tierra Del Fuego in 2010. I drove it to
Guatemala (10,000 miles R/T) Original engine had 145,000 on it and it sprung
leaks. So in 2009 I put a bunch of $$$$ into it for the South America trip.
That included new GoWesty 2.2L engine, rebuilt auto trans, and up graded
suspension, and New water hoses all around including a new radiator. We
drove it down thru Mexico to Panama in Oct of 2009. Had no problems at all
with the engine and coolant system. From Columbia to Argentina I had a
number of gas issues and trans axle boot issues, all taken care of by good
mechanics. We drove all around South America and stored Paco for 8 months,
at the suggestion of some Swiss Over landers we met, and returned in early
2011. When my wife and I returned to Paco and fired it up the Distribution
coolant unit sprung a leek, I finally got that fixed with some two part
epoxy. At first I asked for Phosphate free stuff in Uruguay to no response.
So I bought some universal, green coolant. It still leaked a little and I
just kept filling it up with WATER, (I know, but what else did I have). So
for 5 months we drove around Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Peru, and Bolivia
with a small leak and using water to fill it up. So we finally got Paco
shipped back to the US from Chile. So it sat for another 5 months with
water in the coolant system. So that is about a year that it had, some green
coolant in it plus a lot of water. When the Ship finally arrived in LA, I
took Paco to my mechanic and had it flushed and a new Distribution assembly
put on it plus changed the Thermostat. It was running quite well and
staying cool and had no leaks. In July of 2012 my wife and I drove Paco to
Alaska. I BLEW A HEAD GASKET IN CALGARY. I tried to move Paco but three
water hoses blew. Found a great mechanic that had VW experience and he
replaced Head gasket and busted hoses, and said that compression wear was
normal. So I stopped before I cooked the engine. We continued on to Alaska
with no problems only some minor leaking form improperly tightened hose
clamps. On the way home from Alaska we sprung a small leak from the
Thermostat housing, so I put water in it until I got home.
Last month I drove Paco to Death Valley, ho ho can you imagine what is
coming??? Just before I left, I had the compression checked, changed the
Thermostat housing, and a new radiator, because it was running a little
hotter,just above the center light, than normal (dead center over the red
light). My mechanic said that I was good to go, the compression was 160 on
the left side and 130 on the right side. I drove around Seal Beach a couple
of days with the Air conditioning on and temps seemed ok. So onto Death
Valley, at over 98 degrees F. The van heated up considerably going up hill
through Trona, the first level of fan speed went on then up to the high
speed of fan. That kept it cool no red light ever came on. We camped at a
high elevation the first night at 7,000 ft. I decided to try and bleed the
system a bit, I thought that I may still have air in the system. Bleed it
and got some air, refilled it. It drove a lot cooler down into the depths
of Death Valley. Coming out of the valley at over 90 degrees it got hot but
only to the first fan speed. I never turned on the air conditioning, I
thought that would have been pushing it. Third day, it was cool in the low
70s drove to Tonopah, Nev, at 6200 ft. I was driving up hill most of the
day with a tail wind(so it was running a little warm, first fan speed only).
Got to Tonopah, parked it an sat for a couple of hours while we visited with
my family. Came out of the Mizpah hotel and a puddle of a lot of water was
under the motor. I had broken a hose from the engine to the Distribution
tube. Luckily found a Mechanic that cut the split part of the end of the
hose off and slid it further up.[I think the clamp had been improperly
tightened on the lip of the distribution assembly. He filled it with
water, bleed it and I drove it home 450 miles with no over heating at all.
In fact I got really good gas mileage coming home almost 20mpg, with an auto
trans..... I had good power. Oil was still good as well.
I have 70,000 miles on this 2.2 Westy engine. What would any of you
do next? Other than dump all the system again, and have the coolant checked
for combustion gases. Do I have another head ready to blow or might I have
the one repaired this last summer not done right? I am concerned that the
van is overheating more than normal and that I blew another hose.
Any input is appreciated..
Gary in Seal Beach, CA
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