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Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2013 14:24:43 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Possible...Overheating
Comments: To: Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <CAGXJJty3RO2k0jWXuVSOfeHEjgxGB6dx3ehH04BetmkXiHJvPA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Speaking of buying ( and studying ) books on automotive tech subjects .. I get the impression very people do. Really. Lately I ask people how much they read ...< about *anything* > astongishingly I find many people that barely read on a regular basis ..not even half an hour a week.

Any half smart 6 year old can say if brakes lights are working or not. My daughter sure could. I had her help me service her faimily's volvo when she was about 12 maybe , including fuel filter under the car. a month later they break down in Idaho.. some shop is telling them a component under the hood is the fuel filter. She or someone , told them they were wrong. 12 year old female knew more about it than they did. They didn't seemany volvos in that neck of the woods in the 90'sevidently.

On 4/23/2013 2:07 PM, Steven Johnson wrote: > Charge the professor a consulting fee & tuition and have him by several > books on the > subject and then he can come to your class and you can slowly tell him how > it works > and assign several hundred hours of homework and then maybe he'll arrive at > an answer.... > > Steven > 91 Westy > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < > scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > >> I know a guy .. >> a real college professor . Was a vanagon owner too. He asked me to help >> him check his Subaru car brake lights. >> So I'm at the controls.. >> you know the drill ...one person says what they are doing ..the other >> person says if the lights are working. >> >> I'm asking him to tell me if the brake lights are working.. >> he has to tell me that he honestly does not know what to look for, and >> cannot tell if the brake lights are workingor not. >> Licensed driver too. College professor. >> an extreme case perhaps, but true story. >> >> >> >> >> On 4/23/2013 1:46 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote: >> >>> Interesting to me that so many folks find the expectations in higher >>> education to be more than they are willing and able to tackle. Yet, the >>> same people will fly in and attempt to rebuild a high tech machine like an >>> automobile engine, then trust their lives and that of family and friends to >>> the result. The latter impresses me, with three degrees and 40 years as a >>> professor, as much more difficult. mcneely >>> >>> ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Of coursethere are. >>>> There are thousands and millions of ways mistakes can be made. >>>> >>>> 'generally' ....rebuilding mistakes cause things more like oil >>>> consumption, noises, oil pressure issues ..those sorts of things. >>>> Even incorrect timing can cause overheathing ..or contribute to it is >>>> more accureate. >>>> >>>> head fitted poorly ..on wbxr's you bet ! >>>> Not everyone does it ..but it's smart to test fit the heads on with just >>>> the metal rings on top of the barrels.. >>>> and measure the cap for the outer water gasket. >>>> That gap can be too big, or two small, >>>> or even tilted.....like not the same all the way around. >>>> >>>> the first time I ever ran into that issue , some 20 yrs ago ...brand new >>>> AMC head on one side of a 2.1 wbrx .......rubber gasket pinched out in >>>> about a year .. >>>> I researched it like crazy .......finally a dealer tech told me you >>>> dry-fit the head to check that gab and it it's off .. >>>> get this ...*try a different cylinder head* !! >>>> ( which is true. ) >>>> but I was flabbergasted ...since standard fitting parts that allwork >>>> right due to being built to the exact same dimensions is about a 100 >>>> year old idea in gunand car production. >>>> Prior to stardanized parts guns and even cars were hand fitted part by >>>> part. >>>> In something like 1918 ... >>>> it was a big big deal when 3 Buicks or whatever were driven to an Expo >>>> in NY and the 3 cars stripped down, all the parts jumbled and them put >>>> back together.....an amazing feat at the time.. >>>> >>>> so to find out that all waterboxer heads may not be made exactly right >>>> to fit right .. >>>> pretty dumb ! >>>> and .....no 'regular' engines have the issue that waterboxer heads have. >>>> "Normal' cyinder heads are flat on the bottom. ...on virtually all >>>> engines off all types ( not rotaries of course ) .. >>>> so sealing on those is pretty straightforward. >>>> >>>> a waterboxer is a converted VW air-cooled design ..most obviously so. >>>> the bottom of the head is not flat. >>>> how much the outer rubber gasket is squeased depends on the head sitting >>>> on the barrels just right .. >>>> and the 'step distance' between the combusion chamber area of the head, >>>> and the outer flat surface being exactly right, within a few thousands. >>>> >>>> so yeah....that area can be done poorly. >>>> and ...talk about mistakes.. >>>> you know how I love to carry on about that ..I seethem constantlyin >>>> engine, car , and vanagon repair. >>>> >>>> On the other hand . >>>> I think it's *extremely* risky for people to turn out rebuilt units like >>>> engines and transmissions... >>>> for 'who know' whatever back yard mechanic or shop to install it >>>> incorrectly, or with a half-glogged radiator or whatever. The idiot >>>> factor is huge. >>>> I talk with Ken at German Transaxle about that a lot ....they send >>>> out a good unit.. >>>> and have almost no control over what someone does it. >>>> >>>> it's all fun though. >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> On 4/23/2013 12:10 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote: >>>> >>>>> hmmm..... . Aren't there things that can cause overheating that would >>>>> be due to a bad rebuild? Heads badly fitted, for example. Just wondering. >>>>> My expertise is on the low side. mcneely >>>>> >>>>> ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> lol.. >>>>>> guess you haven't bought many used engines from junkyards. >>>>>> >>>>>> it's a round metal glue-on thing ...silver in color .. about the size >>>>>> of >>>>>> a dime. >>>>>> changes to dark color in the middle if temp gets too high. >>>>>> Very common on any junkyard used engine. >>>>>> >>>>>> so if you have a problem and say 'hey ..that engine you sold me is no >>>>>> good' .. >>>>>> and they see their ( sometimes hidden a little ) heat tab has changed >>>>>> color.. >>>>>> then they cansay 'dude, you overheated it.It's not on us. " >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/23/2013 11:24 AM, Dave Mcneely wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What are these "melt tabs"? mcneely >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---- Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No doubt you are fine, those tabs melt when the engine melts down. >>>>>>>> You probably had some boiling around the cylinders, but I don't think you >>>>>>>> caused any damage in a mile and a half. Just fix it and run it! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Stuart >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.**com<vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>] >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of william landsman >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 10:45 AM >>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>>>>>>> Subject: Possible...Overheating >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> Today I was out driving (about 2 miles) and my alternator froze up >>>>>>>> and the belt broke. >>>>>>>> I took off belt and did not think about the water-pump being run by >>>>>>>> the same belt, "other stuff on my mind" regardless I drove another 1.5 >>>>>>>> miles and then it hit me. Pulled over immediately and turned engine off. >>>>>>>> Engine temp was still not up to normal operating temp as I had just >>>>>>>> started driving and it is currently below freezing where I live. The gauge >>>>>>>> was rising quickly before I shut it off in a safe location. Opened up >>>>>>>> engine compartment, I could hear water gurgling but nothing was spewing out >>>>>>>> anywhere and it had not hit a temp that caused the coolant to go from >>>>>>>> expansion tank to overflow tank. >>>>>>>> Here are my questions. >>>>>>>> 1. Have I ruined the motor...I did not see any coolant leaks >>>>>>>> anywhere. >>>>>>>> 2. What temperature do the GoWesty Melt tabs actually melt and where >>>>>>>> are they located. (Just had a new engine installed recently...) 3. If the >>>>>>>> heads fail, would they leak immediately? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will get alternator and belts replaced. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4. Is there anything I should watch out for when I do start it up >>>>>>>> next? >>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice. >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 🎭 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> David McNeely >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>> David McNeely >>>>> >>>>> -- >>> David McNeely >>> >>>


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