Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 21:48:17 -0700
Reply-To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: coolant overflow fears and thoughts
In-Reply-To: <CAJPo2u1vkdd8Y4euWyrcVW4fPCR=4oOCh+09eVw0jtosEUPqgQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Angus, I absolutely agree with you! I don't mean to discourage someone who
has a good chance of finishing the job. I've done this sort of thing for
years, but I'm not going to do it on my original '85 with the 27 year old
exhaust studs that will likely all break off, buying the new $700 exhaust
system, $500 heads, etc. What does the novice do when he realizes that he
has no hope of getting it running again? That's when these vans appear on
Craigslist really cheap.
Stuart
From: Angus Gordon [mailto:birdworks@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 8:36 PM
To: Stuart MacMillan
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Subject: Re: coolant overflow fears and thoughts
Hmmm...I guess I look at things differently than Stuart. I'm not a guru like
Alistair either :) , but one thing I appreciate about the waterboxer is that
it's really pretty easy to work on. The last time I changed a head I did it
with the engine still installed, van sitting in my driveway. Took about
three hours. I have a collection of used heads, acquired at an average price
of maybe $50 each. (I also have a couple with waiting-to-be-drilled studs!)
Anyway, I think my point is that there's more than one way to skin a head
gasket. I respect Stuart's opinion, but tend to think people should at least
know they have the option to just dive in and fix-their-own-stuff. Spend
your time rather than your money.
Angus
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
wrote:
That's just the beginning! Figure $3000-$4000 by the time you drive off
with tax and all the other stuff you'll need to replace just to get a decent
warranty from the shop.
All good advice here, but you really have to be a fearless DIY mechanic with
a decent collection of tools, jacks, jack stands, workbench, spare time,
etc., and prior engine messing experience to tackle the WBX. I'm an
experienced DIYer and won't tackle it. If you have AMC heads, then it's
been "rebuilt" before, and probably not the bottom half, only a head
replacement.
I'm on my fourth WBX. It's in my "new" '85 van and is the original engine,
and hope it will last for one more summer camping season before I do the
Subaru conversion I'm acquiring parts for.
The stock engines can go for a long time. Dennis can attest to that because
he knows how to take care of them and drives the flat east coast between NY
and FL (pushing 300k miles I think?), but rebuilds don't last anywhere near
as long and are very expensive. You simply can't get quality parts for the
WBX today, and they are labor intensive to fix, so it's a waste of money
IMHO. You'll likely have to get a complete new exhaust system that doesn't
fit well too (yours is 30 years old!), so add that to the cost.
Do you know how to extract a broken stud? You will likely need to, and it
can be easier to get a new head. Alistair has a story on how he heat
hardened a broken stud trying to drill it out that he'll share with you. I
felt his pain:
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0408D
<http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0408D&L=vanagon&P=R38163>
&L=vanagon&P=R38163
You and I are mere mortals, not gurus with real shops like Alistair or
Dennis. You can try to patch it up as cheaply as possible (and it won't be
cheap), but you will likely need new heads (of questionable quality) since
the eroded sealing surface cannot be machined. Your best alternative is to
find a serviceable used engine and start saving for a Subaru or Bostig
conversion if you want to keep the rig for the long term. There are plenty
of them around the Northwest. I'll have a serviceable one available next
winter (I hope). Note I didn't say "good," just "serviceable," and likely
serviceable for only a short time.
Again, good luck. I've owned one of these since 1986, and I've learned my
lesson now. Sort of-- and it's been painfully expensive. Spread out over
40 years it doesn't look so bad though, and I'm spending more again now
since I've jumped back into the abyss.
Whatever you decide it will be worth it, since there is no replacement for
these rigs.
Stuart
'85 Westy, fourth in a series of VW campers
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Carchrae [mailto:carchrae@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 10:57 AM
To: Stuart MacMillan
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: coolant overflow fears and thoughts
Thanks Stuart. I know it... I just called a local shop and they said
it would be around 1500 to do the head gasket job, and another 500 per head
if they need replacing. Sigh.
Tom
