Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 20:30:33 -0500
Reply-To: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Diesel good idea? Engine idling!
In-Reply-To: <CAHTkEu+6tQySL-+_WU+6r7kN272ZSoO9RcWcez0=T9_XOFT4xw@mail.gmail.com>
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I've tinkered with a lot of turbo-cars. I used to modify late 80's Chrysler
2.2 liter Turbo II engines. My last "turbo-hotrod" was a 89 Lebaron Couple
GTC that left the factory with 174 HP, but mine put out 224 HP. For you
"older guys" like me, that's 1.67 HP per Cu. In.!!!! It helped to know the
folks in Huntsville AL who wrote the engine control software for these
machines.
Later I owned a long string of diesel Mercedes and most were turbo-diesel. I
used to deliver Dominos pizzas in them and I usually left the cars locked &
idling at the store. The interesting thing was mileage left idling was
slightly better than mileage when I shut the engine off between deliveries.
I'm sure that the mileage would have swung the other way if I had let the
engine idle for longer periods, like over-night, but there is something to
not turning diesels off for shorter periods of time.
The turbochargers in diesel engines aren't as subject to failure due to oil
coking in the turbo bearing as gas engine turbochargers are because diesel
exhaust does not run as hot as gas exhaust. The worse were the Ford
turbochargers used in the late 80's turbo-Mustangs. Because of what I know
about turbo chargers & diesels I would not be afraid of a turbo-diesel in a
Vanagon providing the diesel engine is rated for a turbo. The trick is to
run Mobil-1 oil because it's less likely to coke-up the turbo bearing.
Thanks, Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
www.stir-plate.com
www.towercooler.com
www.grow-sun.com
www.raspberryproject.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
Don Hanson
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 7:43 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Diesel good idea? Engine idling!
Probably not too many turbo diesel vanagons around but I've been told by
very knowledgeable diesel mechanics that it is hard on the turbo to shut it
right down immediately after running at full operating temperature..It was
explained to me the turbine gets really really hot at speed..and shutting
down abruptly leaves it full of heat sink..I was told to let a turbo diesel
run a few minutes after stopping the vehicle to allow the turbo internals to
shed some heat in a more controlled way..
Long duration Idling trucks aren't nearly as common as just a few years
ago....When diesel is $4+ per gallon, who wants to waste it? The Gucci
trucks now have APUs...Aux Power Units...generators separate from the drive
motor..Makes sense to me.. Keeping warm or cool or surfing the internet on
the power from your drive motor....Overkill for sure.
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Scott Ohana
<scottdaniel@turbovans.com>wrote:
> Very glad to hear truck stops have systems to supply110AC, wifi, and
> cold air to parked trucks !
>
> re 'warming it up at a cold idle' ..
> I am sure you're going most likely stick to your methods , and ..
> I suggest to ALL vanagons driver's or vehicle driver's of any type..
> from a cold start, start it as gently as you can, run it a minute or
> so at the most, then drive off gently ..
> and drive gently for the first 8 to 10 minutes say.
> At a cold idle , since when there's no load on it, it won't warm up
> very well...
> and that cold running, especially in gasoline puts acid in the engine
> oil and into the exhaust system , shortening life of those parts.
>
> another very helpful cold weather trick is ..this is quite important
> actually ,,during the first say 8 to 10 miles of that gentle cold
> driving, keep the heater valve off or mostly off.
> Since having full time coolant flow through heater core/s can keep the
> t-stat from doing it's job.
> There are a few people who own vans and work on them that don't know
> that heater circuit flow in any car is not thermostat controlled ..if
> the heater valve is on ...there is coolant flow.
> < exception being very modern cars where a computer manages all that
> >
>
> Subaru even has a factory bulletin to that affect, as do other
> manufacturers, do run heater full on from stone cold. It can keep the
> system from reaching closed loop even.
>
> That 'start and drive gently, pretty much right away' thing..
> I believe you'll find that in the Owner's Manual for a 1959 Mercedes
> 220S car.
>
> that's total bull about............... 'takes more fuel to start it
> than to idle it.'
> That myth is about 70 years old at least, and is from the old carb
> days of the 50's maybe.
>
> Any diesel that is working really properly ...sure if it's really cold
> they might be a little harder to start..
> but in any normal temps ..
> a 'really right' diesel vanagon should start instantly after a few
> glow periods down to ...25 F , or even lower.
> Also ...anti-gell fuel treatments are appropriate in freezing temps.
>
> it's just a very macho thing to do.
> Something 'he-man' about it ..an idling diesel.
> I once spent 40 minutes talking VW diesels with a guy while his diesel
> rabbit about 50 feet away idled the whole time, for no reason other
> than 'A'hm a man - ah drives a diesel, and I leave it running to prove it
!'
>
> ( there were two neighbor guys near me that would get off work, fire
> up their F-250 Ford Diesel trucks..
> both of them, then sit there shooting the breeze for 40 minutes. They
> think that is just fine behavior.
>
> gag me !
> even the harshness of the idle sound is jangling.
>
> and don't smell what comes out the tailpipe..
> and when you pass bicyclists driving a diesel vanagon or whatever
> ...your engine exhaust is contributing to shortening their life.
> Back up in still air with your window open ..you'll get a taste.
>
> For full time diesel tow truck drivers ........
> chances are very high their hearing will be badly shot when they are
> 55 , and their lungs damaged from particulate matter, and their life
> span, on average, shortened maybe 6 to 8 years or so.
>
> A factor for me is I have big diesel truck neighbors, and they
> sometimes leave their huge diesel trucks idling for up to an hour
> about 150 feet my desk, and I keep my barn door open unless it's really
cold.
> And do you think they care, even when I ask nicely ??
> The poor souls...they are Proud of how much they don't care that it
> bothers anyone.
>
> I'll try to ease off , lol !!
>
> S.
>
>
> On 6/6/2013 2:06 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>
>> Most Diesel truck engines will burn a gallon an hour or more idling.
>> A warm engine will start almost instantly. That myth just doesn't
>> hold.
>> When I bought my motor home back in 2004 it was programmed to shut
>> off if the vehicle didn't move for three minutes. Since the engine
>> controller is different than the transmission controller the shutdown
>> timer did not know the transmission was not in neutral. So a few
>> times if I was at a stop long enough and forgot to release the brake,
>> or step on the throttle, or let it roll the engine would shut down. I
>> had the timer set 5 minutes for a while.
>> Found I couldn't run the engine in the driveway long enough to warm
>> it up during storage. Eventually had that timer disabled.
>>
>> Truckers often idle the engine for heat or air conditioning. Many
>> locales have banned that. Many are now being equipped with generator
>> or battery based power systems and many truck stops have conditioned
>> air supplies ducted to a window.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List
>> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.**com<vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>]
>> On Behalf Of
>> raceingcajun
>> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:38 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Diesel good idea?
>>
>> You know that has always bothered me also. So one day at the truck
>> stop when fueling, I ask a trucker, he said it takes more fuel to
>> start it than to leave it running???????? I didn't buy that, anyone
>> know for sure. I think I could understand in very cold weather it
>> would be a little harder to start.
>> But idling all night?
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>> When it is not going somewhere, when the wheels are not turning,
>>> please SHUT IT OFF.
>>>
>>
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