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Date:         Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:54 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Small Rust Areas.
Comments: To: Stuart Fedak <ve3smf@yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To:  <C0DCD8DB-2250-4980-9A4E-0D7FDF4EEF84@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

All this is good information, and correct as far as it goes, but millions of cars are doing very well that have had bondo on them for many, many years. If the area is structural (meaning that the integrity of the vehicle will suffer if steel is not used), then steel is called for. Around windows, as the original poster suggests, welding is overkill in my opinion. It sound like the poster just wants to get rid of rust and have a decent looking car.

Hats off if you can weld like that, though. That's awasome.

Small jobs like this can probably be done with a dremel tool to get down to real, shiny metal. Rust conversion chemicals won't get it. Fill with bondo, or if really tiny, spot putty. If bondo, let it cure to the hardness of cold cheese and then hit it with one of those auto body rasps. All this stuff you can get at a paint store or a FLAPS.

For bigger areas, a wire brush on an angle grinder--or, in some cases, and angle grinder—will be needed, but any time you use a grinder on steel it will need a lot of work to finish it back smooth.

Then prime it. You can use those little Preval sprayers you get at home stores or auto paint places. You can use primer out of a spray can, it works all right. You can order paint in small amounts from paintscratch.comto match any vehicle.

Before painting, you can put paracord under the edges of the rubber window molding, This way you can paint up under the edges of the window molding, and after painting remove the cord and let the rubber back down on the new paint. Of course you have to tape off the rubber and glass. I did a whole side of my vanagon like that recently and it came out beautifully.

When you get the paint, make sure you get everything you need with it.

Some one step enamels (you don't use clear coat) reduce 50% with lacquer thinner before they can be sprayed. Some require a special reducer. Some come to you reduced and ready to spray. Some require reducer and hardener in certain ratios. Some are two-step and require clear coat to match your car. Be sure you know what you are getting when you get it and get everything you need. You can easily tie up a hundred bucks in all the other stuff besides the paint (some is only available in gallons, so maybe you can talk a paint shop into pouring off just what you need). Bring a sharpie to the shop, if you go local, and mark the ratios on tops of the various cans. You will forget in six months on all but the simplest mixtures.

Sanding should begin with 600 and go to at least 800 or 1000. Primer will always need hand sanding. Keep it wet and go over it with 1000 if it looks good, 800 and then a thousand if it doesn't. You can read up on the sanding part anywhere. Years ago I bought a Haynes bodywork manual that did a good job of explaining things.

Jim

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Stuart Fedak <ve3smf@yahoo.com> wrote:

> A few years back, I took an evening auto body course at the local > community college. The instructor equated rust areas with cancer. The > only cure was surgical removal. We were taught to cut out until we were > into nice shiny steel. Then butt weld in new steel. No overlap welding, > no rivets. On Miller welding web pages are some good DVD on restoration > and custom manufacturing. I also ordered a DVD from the UK on restoration > techniques. As far as the steel, I was taught to use steel that was primed > using paint that can be welded. It has a higher zinc content and will > conduct. Most of my hobby welding is with MIG, butt welds and using brass > backup plates to absorb heat. Lots of use of compressed air to cool > between spot welds to prevent warping. I find I can do as good or better > than a bodywork shop, as I can take as much time as I want to do a good > job. Most body work shops, time is money, so Bondo is often the method of > choice. > > What became clear to me in the three course that I took, preparation and > cutting until you are into good steel is the key. Most panel sections can > be fabricated, or replacement panels used. > > As far as I am concerned, the only cure for rust cancer is cut and > replace. Everything else is just palliative care. The instructor said > that after doing a proper job, the next step is long term protection, use > of automotive sealant, correct primer and paint. For those in salt > moisture areas, one needs dry storage, pressure washing the areas prone to > rust, and using rust protection. > > Depending on your personal circumstance, and budget, you may have to do > the best that you can. I found that my best solution was to invest in > myself, take Community college evening classes such as gas/arc welding, MIG > welding, body shop restoration, prep and surface prep/painting, machine > shop lathe/milling. I now have the skills to do most of my own work. I > have also been working on restoration of a few Canadian military vehicles > (originally designed by VW). As others have said, when you get into these > older vehicles, it is a lifestyle choice. You either have to have deep > pockets, or plan to learn a lot of new skills and do the work on your own. > You also have to learn how to source parts, find out what are consumable > items, learn how to do preventative maintenance, and how to ask questions, > and listen to the words of experience. Not everything is on the net, so > often you need to listen to the voice of experience. > > Cheers! > > Stuart > > Sent from my electronic umbilicus > > On 2013-06-04, at 1:25 PM, Marc Perdue <mcperdue@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > > Perhaps you should define what you mean by "best"... Ideally, you would > > remove ALL rust, replace whatever metal needed replacing, prime, paint, > > etc. I've seen lots of articles where people talk about taking shortcuts > > here and there, treating with POR15 and such, but the best long-term, and > > probably most expensive, method seems to be to remove ALL the rust. > > > > Disclaimer: I don't do body work, know next to nothing about it short of > > what I have read, and leave that to the professionals. > > > > Good luck! > > Marc > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Jim <jimogul70@gmail.com> > >> >


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