Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:34:21 +1000
Reply-To: Dan Andrews <devilish.dan@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dan Andrews <devilish.dan@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Small Rust Areas.
In-Reply-To: <8D809D56A6524C1AB01C5AC39C005CF6@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I think you're on the right track Jim. I cut back as much of the rust as I can (to shiny metal if possible (don't own a Dremel, but would use it if I did), then paint the metal with a zinc rich paint ("Galvit"). The zinc in the paint is more reactive then the steel, a will sacrifice electrons to the steel, "curing" the rust cancer (however it won't grow back lost metal). I usually leave for a few weeks, then clean, prime, paint.
Regards,
Dan
Sent from my iPhone
On 05/06/2013, at 8:01 AM, Jim <jimogul70@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> This is all good stuff to ponder. My rust spots are itty bitty and not life threatening. I was thinking of using my Dremel as you mention to get rid of the rust and then filling with Por 15 patching stuff. Its a two part rope where you cut off a piece, kneed the two parts together and work it into the depression and then after it hardens sand/file/grind it down. I've never used it but figured it might be good stuff.
>
> --
> Jim
> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Jim Felder wrote:
>
>> All this is good information, and correct as far as it goes, but millions
>> of cars are doing very well that have had bondo on them for many, many
>> years. If the area is structural (meaning that the integrity of the vehicle
>> will suffer if steel is not used), then steel is called for. Around
>> windows, as the original poster suggests, welding is overkill in my
>> opinion. It sound like the poster just wants to get rid of rust and have a
>> decent looking car.
>>
>> Hats off if you can weld like that, though. That's awasome.
>>
>> Small jobs like this can probably be done with a dremel tool to get down to
>> real, shiny metal. Rust conversion chemicals won't get it. Fill with bondo,
>> or if really tiny, spot putty. If bondo, let it cure to the hardness of
>> cold cheese and then hit it with one of those auto body rasps. All this
>> stuff you can get at a paint store or a FLAPS.
>>
>> For bigger areas, a wire brush on an angle grinder--or, in some cases, and
>> angle grinder—will be needed, but any time you use a grinder on steel it
>> will need a lot of work to finish it back smooth.
>>
>> Then prime it. You can use those little Preval sprayers you get at home
>> stores or auto paint places. You can use primer out of a spray can, it
>> works all right. You can order paint in small amounts from
>> paintscratch.comto match any vehicle.
>>
>> Before painting, you can put paracord under the edges of the rubber window
>> molding, This way you can paint up under the edges of the window molding,
>> and after painting remove the cord and let the rubber back down on the new
>> paint. Of course you have to tape off the rubber and glass. I did a whole
>> side of my vanagon like that recently and it came out beautifully.
>>
>> When you get the paint, make sure you get everything you need with it.
>>
>> Some one step enamels (you don't use clear coat) reduce 50% with lacquer
>> thinner before they can be sprayed. Some require a special reducer. Some
>> come to you reduced and ready to spray. Some require reducer and hardener
>> in certain ratios. Some are two-step and require clear coat to match your
>> car. Be sure you know what you are getting when you get it and get
>> everything you need. You can easily tie up a hundred bucks in all the other
>> stuff besides the paint (some is only available in gallons, so maybe you
>> can talk a paint shop into pouring off just what you need). Bring a sharpie
>> to the shop, if you go local, and mark the ratios on tops of the various
>> cans. You will forget in six months on all but the simplest mixtures.
>>
>> Sanding should begin with 600 and go to at least 800 or 1000. Primer will
>> always need hand sanding. Keep it wet and go over it with 1000 if it looks
>> good, 800 and then a thousand if it doesn't. You can read up on the sanding
>> part anywhere. Years ago I bought a Haynes bodywork manual that did a good
>> job of explaining things.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Stuart Fedak <ve3smf@yahoo.com (mailto:ve3smf@yahoo.com)> wrote:
>>
>>> A few years back, I took an evening auto body course at the local
>>> community college. The instructor equated rust areas with cancer. The
>>> only cure was surgical removal. We were taught to cut out until we were
>>> into nice shiny steel. Then butt weld in new steel. No overlap welding,
>>> no rivets. On Miller welding web pages are some good DVD on restoration
>>> and custom manufacturing. I also ordered a DVD from the UK on restoration
>>> techniques. As far as the steel, I was taught to use steel that was primed
>>> using paint that can be welded. It has a higher zinc content and will
>>> conduct. Most of my hobby welding is with MIG, butt welds and using brass
>>> backup plates to absorb heat. Lots of use of compressed air to cool
>>> between spot welds to prevent warping. I find I can do as good or better
>>> than a bodywork shop, as I can take as much time as I want to do a good
>>> job. Most body work shops, time is money, so Bondo is often the method of
>>> choice.
>>>
>>> What became clear to me in the three course that I took, preparation and
>>> cutting until you are into good steel is the key. Most panel sections can
>>> be fabricated, or replacement panels used.
>>>
>>> As far as I am concerned, the only cure for rust cancer is cut and
>>> replace. Everything else is just palliative care. The instructor said
>>> that after doing a proper job, the next step is long term protection, use
>>> of automotive sealant, correct primer and paint. For those in salt
>>> moisture areas, one needs dry storage, pressure washing the areas prone to
>>> rust, and using rust protection.
>>>
>>> Depending on your personal circumstance, and budget, you may have to do
>>> the best that you can. I found that my best solution was to invest in
>>> myself, take Community college evening classes such as gas/arc welding, MIG
>>> welding, body shop restoration, prep and surface prep/painting, machine
>>> shop lathe/milling. I now have the skills to do most of my own work. I
>>> have also been working on restoration of a few Canadian military vehicles
>>> (originally designed by VW). As others have said, when you get into these
>>> older vehicles, it is a lifestyle choice. You either have to have deep
>>> pockets, or plan to learn a lot of new skills and do the work on your own.
>>> You also have to learn how to source parts, find out what are consumable
>>> items, learn how to do preventative maintenance, and how to ask questions,
>>> and listen to the words of experience. Not everything is on the net, so
>>> often you need to listen to the voice of experience.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>> Sent from my electronic umbilicus
>>>
>>> On 2013-06-04, at 1:25 PM, Marc Perdue <mcperdue@GMAIL.COM (mailto:mcperdue@GMAIL.COM)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps you should define what you mean by "best"... Ideally, you would
>>>> remove ALL rust, replace whatever metal needed replacing, prime, paint,
>>>> etc. I've seen lots of articles where people talk about taking shortcuts
>>>> here and there, treating with POR15 and such, but the best long-term, and
>>>> probably most expensive, method seems to be to remove ALL the rust.
>>>>
>>>> Disclaimer: I don't do body work, know next to nothing about it short of
>>>> what I have read, and leave that to the professionals.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck!
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Jim <jimogul70@gmail.com (mailto:jimogul70@gmail.com)>
>>
>>
>>
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