Date:         Fri, 7 Jun 2013 02:12:35 +0000
Reply-To:     J Stewart <fonman4277@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         J Stewart <fonman4277@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Small Rust Areas.
In-Reply-To:  <1155256850.51065.1370568898696.JavaMail.root@sz0171a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Pet peeve of mine, but "bondo" became the generic term for all auto body fillers, like Kleenex did for tissues. Bondo, the brand of auto body filler sold at your local flaps (Auto Zone, etc.) Is IMHO crap. Go to any auto body supply store and you will find many high fillers that will last many years. Jeff Stewart ----- Original Message -----
> If you want to see a good example of DIY repair, watch the UK show
> "Wheeler-Dealer"  I am sure some of the body repairs they do
> (sometimes with rattle-can paint) will either make you cringe or be
> amazed at what you can do with minimal work.
> How come nobody suggested leading the repair rather than bondo??
> Todd
> '88 Westy.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim" <jimogul70@GMAIL.COM>
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:01:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Small Rust Areas.
> This is all good stuff to ponder.  My rust spots are itty bitty and
> not life threatening.  I was thinking of using my Dremel as you
> mention to get rid of the rust and then filling with Por 15 patching
> stuff.  Its a two part rope where you cut off a piece, kneed the two
> parts together and work it into the depression and then after it
> hardens sand/file/grind it down.  I've never used it but figured it
> might be good stuff.    
> --  
> Jim
> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Jim Felder wrote:
> > All this is good information, and correct as far as it goes, but
> > millions
> > of cars are doing very well that have had bondo on them for many,
> > many
> > years. If the area is structural (meaning that the integrity of the
> > vehicle
> > will suffer if steel is not used), then steel is called for. Around
> > windows, as the original poster suggests, welding is overkill in my
> > opinion. It sound like the poster just wants to get rid of rust and
> > have a
> > decent looking car.
> >  
> > Hats off if you can weld like that, though. That's awasome.
> >  
> > Small jobs like this can probably be done with a dremel tool to get
> > down to
> > real, shiny metal. Rust conversion chemicals won't get it. Fill with
> > bondo,
> > or if really tiny, spot putty. If bondo, let it cure to the hardness
> > of
> > cold cheese and then hit it with one of those auto body rasps. All
> > this
> > stuff you can get at a paint store or a FLAPS.
> >  
> > For bigger areas, a wire brush on an angle grinder--or, in some
> > cases, and
> > angle grinder—will be needed, but any time you use a grinder on
> > steel it
> > will need a lot of work to finish it back smooth.
> >  
> > Then prime it. You can use those little Preval sprayers you get at
> > home
> > stores or auto paint places. You can use primer out of a spray can,
> > it
> > works all right. You can order paint in small amounts from
> > paintscratch.comto match any vehicle.
> >  
> > Before painting, you can put paracord under the edges of the rubber
> > window
> > molding, This way you can paint up under the edges of the window
> > molding,
> > and after painting remove the cord and let the rubber back down on
> > the new
> > paint. Of course you have to tape off the rubber and glass. I did a
> > whole
> > side of my vanagon like that recently and it came out beautifully.
> >  
> > When you get the paint, make sure you get everything you need with
> > it.
> >  
> > Some one step enamels (you don't use clear coat) reduce 50% with
> > lacquer
> > thinner before they can be sprayed. Some require a special reducer.
> > Some
> > come to you reduced and ready to spray. Some require reducer and
> > hardener
> > in certain ratios. Some are two-step and require clear coat to match
> > your
> > car. Be sure you know what you are getting when you get it and get
> > everything you need. You can easily tie up a hundred bucks in all
> > the other
> > stuff besides the paint (some is only available in gallons, so maybe
> > you
> > can talk a paint shop into pouring off just what you need). Bring a
> > sharpie
> > to the shop, if you go local, and mark the ratios on tops of the
> > various
> > cans. You will forget in six months on all but the simplest
> > mixtures.
> >  
> > Sanding should begin with 600 and go to at least 800 or 1000. Primer
> > will
> > always need hand sanding. Keep it wet and go over it with 1000 if it
> > looks
> > good, 800 and then a thousand if it doesn't. You can read up on the
> > sanding
> > part anywhere. Years ago I bought a Haynes bodywork manual that did
> > a good
> > job of explaining things.
> >  
> > Jim
> >  
> >  
> > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Stuart Fedak <ve3smf@yahoo.com
> > (mailto:ve3smf@yahoo.com)> wrote:
> >  
> > > A few years back, I took an evening auto body course at the local
> > > community college. The instructor equated rust areas with cancer.
> > > The
> > > only cure was surgical removal. We were taught to cut out until we
> > > were
> > > into nice shiny steel. Then butt weld in new steel. No overlap
> > > welding,
> > > no rivets. On Miller welding web pages are some good DVD on
> > > restoration
> > > and custom manufacturing. I also ordered a DVD from the UK on
> > > restoration
> > > techniques. As far as the steel, I was taught to use steel that
> > > was primed
> > > using paint that can be welded. It has a higher zinc content and
> > > will
> > > conduct. Most of my hobby welding is with MIG, butt welds and
> > > using brass
> > > backup plates to absorb heat. Lots of use of compressed air to
> > > cool
> > > between spot welds to prevent warping. I find I can do as good or
> > > better
> > > than a bodywork shop, as I can take as much time as I want to do a
> > > good
> > > job. Most body work shops, time is money, so Bondo is often the
> > > method of
> > > choice.
> > >  
> > > What became clear to me in the three course that I took,
> > > preparation and
> > > cutting until you are into good steel is the key. Most panel
> > > sections can
> > > be fabricated, or replacement panels used.
> > >  
> > > As far as I am concerned, the only cure for rust cancer is cut and
> > > replace. Everything else is just palliative care. The instructor
> > > said
> > > that after doing a proper job, the next step is long term
> > > protection, use
> > > of automotive sealant, correct primer and paint. For those in salt
> > > moisture areas, one needs dry storage, pressure washing the areas
> > > prone to
> > > rust, and using rust protection.
> > >  
> > > Depending on your personal circumstance, and budget, you may have
> > > to do
> > > the best that you can. I found that my best solution was to invest
> > > in
> > > myself, take Community college evening classes such as gas/arc
> > > welding, MIG
> > > welding, body shop restoration, prep and surface prep/painting,
> > > machine
> > > shop lathe/milling. I now have the skills to do most of my own
> > > work. I
> > > have also been working on restoration of a few Canadian military
> > > vehicles
> > > (originally designed by VW). As others have said, when you get
> > > into these
> > > older vehicles, it is a lifestyle choice. You either have to have
> > > deep
> > > pockets, or plan to learn a lot of new skills and do the work on
> > > your own.
> > > You also have to learn how to source parts, find out what are
> > > consumable
> > > items, learn how to do preventative maintenance, and how to ask
> > > questions,
> > > and listen to the words of experience. Not everything is on the
> > > net, so
> > > often you need to listen to the voice of experience.
> > >  
> > > Cheers!
> > >  
> > > Stuart
> > >  
> > > Sent from my electronic umbilicus
> > >  
> > > On 2013-06-04, at 1:25 PM, Marc Perdue <mcperdue@GMAIL.COM
> > > (mailto:mcperdue@GMAIL.COM)> wrote:
> > >  
> > > > Perhaps you should define what you mean by "best"... Ideally,
> > > > you would
> > > > remove ALL rust, replace whatever metal needed replacing, prime,
> > > > paint,
> > > > etc. I've seen lots of articles where people talk about taking
> > > > shortcuts
> > > > here and there, treating with POR15 and such, but the best
> > > > long-term, and
> > > > probably most expensive, method seems to be to remove ALL the
> > > > rust.
> > > >  
> > > > Disclaimer: I don't do body work, know next to nothing about it
> > > > short of
> > > > what I have read, and leave that to the professionals.
> > > >  
> > > > Good luck!
> > > > Marc
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Jim <jimogul70@gmail.com
> > > > (mailto:jimogul70@gmail.com)>
> > > > >  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> >  
> >  
> >