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Date:         Tue, 11 Jun 2013 16:52:29 -0700
Reply-To:     Keith Hughes <keithahughes@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Keith Hughes <keithahughes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: AC Question
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

R-134A doesn't cool as well in an R-12 system. You really need a more efficient condenser if you want good performance. Additionally, R-134A is not compatible with mineral oil used for lubricant in R-12 systems, and typically R-12 compressors are not compatible with POE/PAG oils used for R-134a from an internal seals perspective. Also PAG and Mineral oils form a very funky mess, so if you're not going to flush the system first (which you should) use POE not PAG oil. You must change the receiver/drier anytime you open the system, and especially when changing oil/refrigerant, if you don't want a time bomb waiting to blow (we're talking $15 here). Also, expect the R-134A to leak, as the stock hoses are not barrier hoses, and 134A will leak out over time.

I converted over some years ago (with an R-134A compressor) when I did an engine conversion, (all new hoses, TX valve, drier) and put in parallel flow condenser with a *core* size of 13" x 19". Worked OK, but in Phoenix OK doesn't always cut it. I finally found a larger condenser that will still fit, and will also now cover the top and bottom radiator openings, maximizing available airflow. It's listed as a 16" x 22", and has a core size of 15" x 20.5" (different vendors list them very differently, so you really need core size to compare - this one was $90 from Nostalgic Air). I'm also building a new rear cabinet (mine's an '86, but doesn't have the plenum) that extends further forward to allow for an internal plenum to route the air from the passenger side fan cage forward inside the original passenger side fresh air duct to new vents at the forward end. This should bring much more air forward. The other fan cage will discharge through a couple of new vents in the new cabinet. Will also give me room for 6x9" speakers!

I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

Keith Hughes '86 Westy Tiico (Marvin)

> From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET> > Subject: Re: AC Question > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Date: Tuesday, June 11, 2013, 6:46 PM > > ---- Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@Q.COM> > wrote: > > My understanding, for what it's worth: R134a doesn't > work nearly as well = > as R12 in an unmodified R12 system.=A0 Mods can run into > some serious chang= > e. R134a will work, as your guy says; just not as well as > what you have. > > > > Smarter listmembers than I may now comment ;-). > > Well, I'm certainly neither smarter nor more expert, but > .......... > > My understanding is that the Vanagon evaporator and > condenser are so large,= > that the difference in cooling power is minimal with the > two fluids.=A0 Bu= > t, the Vanagon air movement system, and the giant box it is > trying to cool = > obviate all that.=A0 My system works as well as it can, and > I have had a ch= > angeover to R134a.=A0 However, to be cool, I have to have > the cold air (and= > it is quite cold, once measured it but can't remember, > though the air cond= > itioning guy said it was colder than expected) blowing on > me.=A0 And since = > it blows from the rear, some distance, we try to train all > vents our way. > > I have read of removing the air plenum above the seat for > better air flow.= > =A0 I have saved instructions, will try to find if anyone > wants them. > > mcneely > > > > Karl Wolz > > Sent from my electronic umbilicus > > > > On Jun 11, 2013, at 1:58 PM, Jim Ogul <jimogul70@GMAIL.COM> > wrote: > > > > > My AC doesnt put out cold air on my 85 Westy.=A0 > It was that way when I > > > bought it.=A0 It has R12 in it.=A0 A local shop > tells me that what they= > do is > > > evacuate the system and put in R134 and if the > system is ok it will wor= > k. > > > I had always heard you have to get into the system > and modify it for R1= > 34. > > > This local shop has a lot of experience and if its > that simple I'd rath= > er > > > go that way. > > > > > > Jim > > > 85 Westy > > -- > David McNeely > > ------------------------------ > > End of vanagon Digest - 11 Jun 2013 - Special issue > (#2013-224) > *************************************************************** >


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