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Date:         Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:39:51 -0500
Reply-To:     Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Why I love Mercedes Benz but would never own one of their cars
Comments: To: David M <covrambles@YAHOO.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <1371323359.6107.YahooMailClassic@web160105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The door locks are incredibly easy to fix - you just find the leaky vacuum solenoid & replace. You see so many 80s Mercedes with the feature not working because the owners don't want to pay to have them fixed.

Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com www.stir-plate.com www.towercooler.com www.grow-sun.com www.raspberryproject.com

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of David M Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 2:09 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Why I love Mercedes Benz but would never own one of their cars

In addition to my Vanagon, I also own a 1984 Mercedes 230e. This is a 123 body style which is my favourite. More classic than the 124 in my opinion. For some reason the 230e was never officialy imported to the USA. Mercedes only imported the diesel 123 models (240D and 300D). The 230e was imported as 'grey-market' in very limited numbers and converted by a company in California. Unfortunately, German engineering is not all it is made up to be. These cars are subject to all kinds of issues, not the least of which is the complex vacuum door lock mechanism. You will be lucky to find any 1980's Merce4des where this 'feature' still works properly.

-David (1987 Wolfsburg, 1984 Mercedes 230e)

--- On Fri, 6/14/13, Zeitgeist <gruengeist@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> From: Zeitgeist <gruengeist@GMAIL.COM> > Subject: Re: Why I love Mercedes Benz but would never own one of their

> cars > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Date: Friday, June 14, 2013, 11:02 PM > I've owned a diverse number of both > VWs, BMWs, Audis and MBs, and now that I'm firmly ensconced in my > middle years, I've settled on the two chassis with which I intend to > ride out into the enthusiast's sunset; the T3 and 124.  Perhaps it's a > case of arrested development or just dumb block-headed obstinance, but

> those two resonate with me in a manner that no other cars in the past > or present can seem to muster.  They're both highly adaptable, mostly > modern and can fairly easily absorb newer technology from their > respective marque's parts bins, so they can maintain contemporary > relevance...or not.  I'm generally embarrassed of MB's offerings after > the 124, so I don't follow them too closely, except perhaps to borrow > some of the tech.  In my shop I have a 124 wagon with late model big

> brakes, suspension bits and diesel engine with a phased target output > of over 450hp.  I'm happy to steal their tech, but the newer packaging > and design just leaves me flat.  I pretty much feel the same way about > newer VWs.  I'm happy to steal their TDI tech and brakes, but that's

> about it.  At this point, I figure the factories leave me no option > except to DIY build my own cars based upon old chassis and a > hodge-podge of newer tech to suit my own needs and interests, since > they're not willing to offer something worthy themselves.  Come to > think of it, both T3s and 124s were and still are used as taxis.  Long > live the classy taxis > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Kent Christensen <lkchris@osogrande.com>wrote: > > > Re: While MB is marketed as a "luxury" car here in NA, > it built its > > reputation upon solid engineering and reliable > transport for folks at a > > variety of different economic strata.  My daily > driver is really nothing > > more than a tarted up taxi cab ('90 300D).  That > taxi lineage is precisely > > why I love the 124 models, 'cause they're a wonderful > combination of > > comfort, handling and robust engineering...but luxury, > not so much.  Classy > > is a more accurate term (Casey) > > > > > > It is indeed pretty much "rambling" to talk about 1980s > Mercedes, as > > today's > > Mercedes are nothing like them and are orders of > magnitude better cars. > > It's apples/oranges. The 1986-1994 W124 (E-class) is > indeed fondly > > remembered, and its chief significance is that it's the > final E-class > > designed before the advent of Lexus, an event--along > with the emergence of > > Jose Ignacio Lopez-- that set the high-end automobile > industry on its ear. > > > > As anyone who has compared a final-version VW Beetle to > a 1st-generation > > Golf (Rabbit) has seen, Germans were quite comfortable > building their cars > > "heavy," and when pressure came to build them > economically, problems arose. > > Mercedes' (and BMW's) problems came in the late > 1990s/early 2000s thanks I > > think to pressures attributable to Lexus and Lopez and > Bosch's inability to > > adapt as well, but the German industry has made a > fantastic comeback and > > continues its world leadership. > > > > The today most hilarious aspect of 1980s and early > 1990s Mercedes is the > > diesel engines, which compared to today's diesel > technology are indeed > > laughable.  I'd recommend to anyone to look into a > 2007-2009 E-class (W211) > > diesel (OM642), which will be called in the USA E320 > Bluetec and which you > > can find used for $20K.  I'd be willing to wager > that this will be the > > highest-performance car most have ever > experienced--they are rocketships. > > These cars make 400 ft-lbs torque and over one > horsepower per cubic inch > > and > > among other things feature piezoelectric fuel injectors > that fire five > > times > > per power stroke (and cost at least $1K each) and a > turbocharger with > > electrically controlled variable pitch blades. > This in a vehicle that will > > return 30-35 mpg ... or in my 5000+ pound GL 26 > highway.  This an aluminum, > > 72-degree V6 ... the 4-cylinder diesel currently used > in Europe's E-class > > taxis makes that car a faster car than the 1970s 6.9 > S-class.  You know, > > James Hunt's car. > > > > It's a different era for sure, and Mercedes and BMW are > in a technology > > race > > (with Lexus not participating all that much) and words > like "robust" are > > quaint remembrances from the past.  As noted, > you'd love the car cited, but > > you will get to pay maybe before 50K miles $1500-2000 > to fix the electronic > > part that adjusts intake manifold runner length that > gets ruined by the > > turbo oil seal leak.  Yes, "robust" is now a > historical term and of little > > actual current significance, as sales of these cars > continue to be record > > setting in any event.  It's for sure "rambling" to > talk of "robust" in > > 2013. > > > > Kent Christensen > > Albuquerque > > '81 Vanagon (and '07 Mercedes GL320 CDI and 3 BMW > motorcycles) > > > > > > -- > Casey >


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