Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 18:43:24 -0500
Reply-To: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Ordering Parts Online
In-Reply-To: <20130623191138.R2GQH.436424.imail@eastrmwml214>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Broken studs are obvious - question is, why did they break? If they broke due to corrosion or the previous mechanic over tightening the nuts he should have explained the cause and would have expected you to cover the repair. The next mechanic in line, the one who did the repair, would not know the cause.
I used to work on friend's cars but I quite a while ago partly because I got tired of being accused of breaking things. The last one was a Mercedes V-8 with two stripped spark plug holes. When I explained he asked "why did you strip them". I explained that they were stripped when I pulled the plugs out and I showed him the plugs with aluminum still in the threads. His response was "No-way, I installed those plugs myself". He expected me to helicoil them at my cost, I refused and we have not talked since. Mechanics have thicker skins than I do.
Thanks, Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
www.stir-plate.com
www.towercooler.com
www.grow-sun.com
www.raspberryproject.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of Dave Mcneely
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 6:12 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Ordering Parts Online
I did exactly what you said, revisited the guy who did bad work and asked him to pay the bill I had to pay elsewhere. I had my radiator replaced at a radiator shop. The guy broke the power studs on the fan, and told me the fan was bad, but he did not know why. He wanted to replace it for a large price for parts and labor. Of course, the fan worked fine before he worked on it.
I took the camper to Darell Cook, Vanagon and other VW mechanic par excellence. He found the broken studs, repaired the fan, and charged me what I thought was a reasonable price. I paid the bill, and took it to the radiator shop owner, to whom I explained why the fan would not work after he reinstalled it.
So, he said to me, "I suppose you want me to pay your bill for the fan repair?" "Well, yes," I said. He snapped out, "Well, sue me!" I took the bill and walked toward the door, shaking my head. He called me back, and tried to explain that breaking something like that was just a normal part of automobile repair work, and the customer was always at risk of that happening. He'd already broken two nylon couplings involved in the cooling system, but I gave him credit there for the parts being nylon and 20 years old, and bought new ones and paid for their install. But the fan he just broke, and if competent he could have repaired it. Should have.
So I explained to him that my mother taught me that if I broke something, I was responsible for it. We talked a good long while about this. Eventually, he paid half the repair bill I was out because of his incompetence, and I let it go at that. But of course, I won't go back to him, and I have told two different people who needed radiator work not to go there.
mcneely
---- Mike B <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET> wrote:
> Scott,
>
> I have been repairing and restoring not only autos and engines, but
> aircraft, houses and commercial fire alarm and security systems also
> for well over 30 years. I have seen plenty of shoddy repairs in every
> trade. I, too, could write a book and fill volumes with the
> unbelievably bad workmanship that I have had to find, and set right.
> This type of work rarely happens in aviation due to strict laws
> regarding records, maintenance logs, technician signatures and quality
> assurance inspectors, including both civilian and military aviation.
> I have repaired everything from hot air balloons to 747's to F-15 jet
> engine overhaul, retiring 10 yrs ago from the USAF with 21 yrs of
> service all over the world. A version of these quality repair methods
> could happen in the automotive repair world, if laws were enacted to
> make it a requirement. The way automotive technology and lawsuits/
> liability is going, maybe one day it will happen, but I doubt it will
> happen soon. If someone is killed due to a mechanic's shoddy repairs
> (like improper brake work, fuel system work or neglecting to inform a
> customer about a safety-related defect on their vehicle), they will
> likely be sued and found liable. So, even though you may feel like
> the lone good mechanic in a world that's so obviously full of bad
> ones, you MUST continue to do it right, and inform the customer of
> what you find that wasn't done right by previous others. And yes,
> people do charge as much money for shoddy repairs as people like you do for quality
> repairs, but you're not the one cheating the customer. And yes, the
> customer has every right to sue the bad mechanic when they go to court
> armed with the evidence that you have found, but few will. The best
> recourse is to revisit the shop with the evidence and ask for a
> refund, or for them to pay your bill for having to re-do the job
> properly, threatening a lawsuit if that becomes necessary. The late
> Bob Hoover wrote on this subject, too.
> Sadly, there will always be lots of bad "mechanics" out there
> charging good money for bad work. Happily, us good mechanics will
> always stay busy, often based on the bad guys shoddy work and
> sometimes poor quality parts. As we used to say in the Air Force;
> Press on with pride.....
>
> Mike B.
>
> On 6/22/2013 1:44 AM, Scott Ohana wrote:
> > why order anything out of the UK unless there is no other source ?
> >
> > all kinds of problems with ordering like that..
> > time delays, shipping cost, and how hard it might be to return
> > something etc.
> >
> > Not an option all all for me, unless there is no other option.
> >
> > actually ...lol ..
> > since it's fridae..
> > I must say ...the amount of sheerly awful professional carrepair I
> > see is appaling.
> > on the order of 75 % of the time, the work was sloppy ..
> > the job was not really done right ..
> > and so on.
> > I havehad numerous vanagon customers get work on other types of cars
> > by shops..
> > and even when I talk to the shop beforehand, hoping to tactfully
> > inspire them to do really good, complete work ..
> > they still are just plan sloppy, and not very repsonsible at all.
> >
> > and that ..brings another question to mind ..
> > on all these lists ...'why' isn't anyone else metioning all the very
> > bad vanagon work there is ...
> > if you wonder what I mean .
> > I mean, for example, an engine conversion job for some $14,000 where
> > there were*missing* and badly rusted away fuel tank strapes ( syncro
> > ) where the trans at least has to be out to address that repair ..
> > and not only was the customer not offered the option of having that
> > repair done..
> > they were not even informed 'sir..at some point you need to get your
> > fuel tank straps replaced' ...
> > ( and of course, the customer would say then 'why didn't you tell me
> > when it was all apart !!! ??'
> >
> > so ..tell me dear vanagon owners ..
> > people just do not notice things screwed on crooked or sloppily ..
> > Honest ...I specialize in re-doing bad work.
> > The most claring ones that come to mind in the last 10 months..
> > 2004 Toyota Tacoma ...entire cylinder head and timing chainjob had
> > to be re-done to the tune of almost $ 3,000.
> > < here's an example of that awful professional work ..
> > there the exhaust manifold is held on with nuts on studs, the nuts
> > galled out and did not even reach the exhaust manifold at all, but
> > they 'felt tight' of course. Someone paid $ 2,700 for that kind of
> > work, I saw the invoice.
> >
> > also ...97 Ford Escort ..exact same thing ....desperately rusty head
> > bolts where they screw into the block, floppy new timing belt etc...
> > also ..
> > 86 Weekender ...a fairly fresh 2.1waterboxer 'rebuild.'
> > about 20 workmanship mistakes in and on it, worn out cam lobes, etc. ..
> >
> > so ....please tell me ..
> > why isn't anyone else noticing or commenting on this.
> > there really is a crisis here..
> > I honestly don't know who people can trust to do really precise ,
> > exact, careful work on vanagons or any other car.
> > The majority of work I see is horribly bad.
> >
> > so ..why ..is not one else commenting on that ?
> > They don't notice it? .just like the person doing the sloppy work in
> > the first place doesn't notice it ???
> >
> > sincerely ...
> > I just can not grock this ....tell me. No one else on these lists
> > can see really bad work , or what ?
> >
> > if I wrote abook about all the appallingly bad pro car work I've
> > seen in my 30 plus year career .
> > it would run for volumes and volumes...like encyclopeias did back
> > when those existed.
> > Literally thousands of horribly bad sloppy carrepair jobs.
> > No one else sees that ?
> > I see it constantly. I can give very detailed examples..ones that
> > are just embarrassingly stupidly incompetent or sloppy.
> >
> >
> > ?? ? ? ?
> > sincerely. like really .
> >
> > On 6/21/2013 10:11 PM, Jason wrote:
> >> DO NOT ORDER FROM ROCKAUTO.
--
David McNeely
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