Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 12:11:42 -0400
Reply-To: Stuart Fedak <ve3smf@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stuart Fedak <ve3smf@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: 11mm brake line wrench
In-Reply-To: <51DD7EAC.7090701@charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thanks!
Great resource!
Stuart
Sent from my electronic umbilicus
On 2013-07-10, at 11:33 AM, Mike B <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote:
> Napa or Carquest fittings and line stock were cheaper than FedHill, IIRC.
>
> Fedhill has a nice tubing flaring Identification chart with tons of good info for us DIY'ers.
>
> From my posting on TheSamba from January to November 2012;
>
> "I've been doing some research of my own and come up with some info;
>
> all hard lines are 4.7mm (3/16 inches) diameter
> all tubing nuts are M10X1.0 threads
> all tubing flaring is ISO bubble flare
>
> ETKA shows the following parts info for LHD/ non- ABS,
>
> 1. Master cylinder to front tee 1850mm (72.8 inches)
> 2. Master cylinder to rear brake pressure reducer 2130mm (83.8 inches)
> 3. Front tee to left brake hose 140mm (5.5 inches)
> 4. Left front brake hose to left front caliper 350mm (13.8inches)
> 5. Front tee to right front brake hose 950mm (37.4 inches)
> 6. Right front brake hose to right front caliper 350mm(13.8inches)
> 7. Brake pressure reducer to rear tee 2900mm (114.2inches)
> 8. Rear tee to left rear brake hose 623mm (24.5inches)
> 9.Rear tee to right rear brake hose 285mm (11.2 inches)
> 10.Left rear brake hose to left rear wheel cylinder 550mm (21.6 inches)
> 11.Right rear brake hose to right rear wheel cyl. 550mm (21.6 inches)
>
> Total length 3/16" line required 10678mm(420.4inches)
> or 35 feet
> (These measurements are from flare-to-flare (add 1 inch total when cutting each line to allow additional length for flaring each end of the tubing) (11 inches)
> So, if you plan to buy enough to do the whole van, you will need to buy two 25-foot coils of brake line. Right now, Napa and Carquest have a sale on it so it's between $23 and $29 per coil. I can't recommend attempting to flare the poly-coated line, it's hard to hold and slips out of the tool while flaring. I bought the copper-nickel line for $29 on sale at Carquest. Napa doesn't sell the copper-nickel but does sell plain and poly-coated line coils. It bends easily and won't corrode for many years.
> Napa does sell a professional ISO flaring tool for $96 with a lifetime warrantee.
> Also, I'm now ordering 20 tubing nuts thru Fedhillusa.com for $1 apiece plus shipping. http://store.fedhillusa.com/m13.aspx
> Vancafe and Bus Depot has the hoses for $13 front and $12 rear, plus shipping. They also have the line clips (6 needed?), hose clips (2 needed?) and retaining springs (6 needed) for $1.50 to $2.80 each Airhead parts and Cip1 has the brass brake tees for $6 each plus shipping.
>
> Flexible brake hose specs;
> 1. Left/right front brake hoses M10X1.0 female/female 400mm (15.75 in)
> 2. Left/right rear brake hoses M10X1.0 female/female 160mm(6.3inches)
>
> This should help fill the gaps in missing information for this job. "
>
> "Correction, according to Airhead parts;
>
> Front brake hoses are 460mm long for all years.
>
> Rear brake hoses are 160mm long for 2WD '86 and '87 years only. All other years/ 4WD are 180mm long.
>
> I guess the VW ETKA leaves some of theses details out, or I read it wrong..."
>
> "Well, I made it through the summer and this fall the rear line feeding the tee (behind the coolant lines!) blew while I was backing out of my driveway, headed to Transporterfest. I parked the van and have been waiting to have time to do the job. Well, I need to do it now, before winter sets in and I'm finding that all of the plastic clips securing the lines to the body are either broken or will break when i replace all the lines. Here's more info to help fill in the gaps;
>
> -8 each plastic push-in single saddle clips 291611767 http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1562_198/brake_hose_holder.html
>
> -2 each plastic push-in single saddle clips (rear trailing arms) 281611767 http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/products/Volkswagen...11767.html
>
> -3 each plastic push-in double clips 281611767 http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1623
>
> -8 each spring steel hose end clips 251611823C http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1624_886/brake_line_retaining_spring.html
>
> -1 each plastic pin-mounted flat single clip 431971848C http://www.volkswagenpartscheap.com/OEMParts/volkswagen-157/4/431971848C.html
>
> -1 each plastic push-in standoff single side clip 251611767B http://autopartmaster.com/en/?action=catalog_part&...e_margin=1
>
> -2 each plastic screw-mounted flat single side clips 251611795 http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/products/Volkswagen-VW/Vanagon/Clamp--CLIP/5188671/251611795.html
>
> -2 each plastic line-separator clips 321611853 http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/products/Audi/Bracket/5489412/321611853.html
>
> These plastic push-in double and single clips are available locally; http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/buy/products/3297...lines.html
> http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/buy/products/1062...lines.html
>
> An alternate method could be to use plastic cable clamps with a self-tapping screw where possible about every 12 inches of run ($1.78 for a pack of 18 ) http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202878268/...Ko7GoYvN-w"
>
> "
> vwmike333 wrote:
>
> ETKA shows the following parts info for LHD/ non- ABS,
>
> 3. Front tee to left brake hose 140mm (5.5 inches)
> 4. Left front brake hose to left front caliper 350mm (13.8inches)
> 5. Front tee to right front brake hose 950mm (37.4 inches)
> 6. Right front brake hose to right front caliper 350mm(13.8inches)
>
> Mike B.
>
> These measurements copied from my previous post are wrong in 1986 thru 1991 VW ETKA!
>
> Some MAJOR differences I've found in the actual lengths upon removal:
>
> 3. Front tee to left front brake hose measured 560mm (22.0 inches)
> 4 and 6. L & R front brake hose to L & R calipers (Girling) measured 120mm (4.7 inches).
> 5. Front tee to right front brake hose measured 1150mm (45.3 inches)
>
> 1980 thru 85 ETKA shows errors also;
>
> 3. Front tee to LF hose 500mm
> 4. LF hose to caliper 120mm, while RF shows as 1100mm! (wrong, both are identical @120mm!)
>
> My front hoses were so corroded that the hose end crimp sleeves were almost gone! There was almost nothing left to hold the rubber hose to the hose end! Can you say dangerous? Also, I cut one of the hoses and the inner opening at the ends was swelled almost shut at 1/32" or less! No wonder I had to pump the brakes! The caliper piston won't move as far and as fast if the hoses are restricting the flow greatly. This also causes the pads to drag and squeal, as it's not free to auto-return easily. These original 25-plus year old hoses are likely to be swelled almost shut inside, so replacement is recommended, even if you don't have all the corrosion that I have on my lines. Also, my caliper bleeder screws won't come out, so I'll have a harder time bleeding the calipers. These bleeders are larger than the ones on the rear wheel cylinders, which are the same as a bug. I had to find a new routing for the one of the front lines, because the cross-frame members, coolant and power steering lines and the steering rack are all in the way, so it makes things really tough to remove or re-install that line. In re-routing the front tee to right front hose line, I ended up having to make up a new line that was about a foot longer than the stock measurement. This made it much easier to go from the hose clip bracket straight over the gas tank, then bent 90 degrees forward to the front tee. The original routing was nearly impossible for me to recreate, so this made it go much easier and quicker. One of the two lines that travel from the master cylinder, thru the firewall grommet, above the spare tire, to the front tee and rear brake pressure reducer were so corroded that it broke in two pieces upon removal. The corroded area was above the spare, where it's harder to see. I'll have to bleed using the short hard line fittings to the calipers for now. I'll have to get the $50 exchange calipers (plus $50 core charge) and re-use my carriers to fix this issue properly. I've never successfully drilled out a broken bleeder screw, so I don't want to risk ruining the caliper trying to get it out. Replacement bleed screws (113-615-273 A) are $12 apiece at Airhead Parts, but Dorman HELP! offers a 2-pack under part #13905 for $9 at Autozone near me. I finished bleeding the lines and I still had almost no pedal, so I gave up for the night. I went back in the morning and drove it around the block, pumping them all the way. The front caliper pads are in contact, so I know the fluid filled and bled well there. I suspected the rear brake pressure reducer was the problem, and read that there's a bleed screw on top of it also. Well, nonetheless, an extra round of bleeding the rears using my Motive pressure bleeder set to 15psi made all the difference! Using a small transparent bleed container and hose, I watched the superfine air bubbles come out of the right rear. Now I have a nice firm pedal, so I took it for a long drive to run some errands, and it worked great! I'm glad that's done! New lines, new hoses, new fluid. Next year, maybe new master cylinder, calipers, wheel cylinders and hardware, in addition to front and rear shocks. I'll be shopping around this winter for the best deals on these items, slowly gathering all the parts to do the rest of this job next spring. Anyone have some good used backing plates and/or dust shields? Mine are so corroded, they need replacement, too. "
>
> Mike B.
>
>
> On 7/10/2013 10:53 AM, Stuart Fedak wrote:
>> Just for the record, this is a site with information on the cunifer brake hose and fittings.
>>
>> http://www.fedhillusa.com/
>>
>> http://store.fedhillusa.com/316475mmtubingandnuts.aspx
>>
>> This is very popular with folks that restore older vehicles. You can sometimes order some from your local parts jobber.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> Sent from my electronic umbilicus
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