Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 12:20:43 -0500
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Bad fuel economy (solution)
In-Reply-To: <MUT71m01i08X5Fr01UT8ul>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
So far as I know, ALL states have gasoline with 10% ethanol.
For ethanol free gas, check this out. No guarantees as to currency.
I get 1-4 mpg better mileage (my perception, not a scientific experiment, but seems consistent) with ethanol free gas in my camper, and as much as 5 mpg better in my Prius. It is harder to find some places than others. Another reason for using it is that I don't want to encourage the "grow fuel instead of food" crowd. mcneely
---- Mike B <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET> wrote:
> Saw this on a FB posting from my friend, Charles Kraus
> <https://www.facebook.com/charles.kraus.18?hc_location=stream>;
>
> "Does anyone know which states have E-10 in the fuel supply? My owners
> manual on my 1985 vanagon says to not use 10% ethanol.I have replaced my
> fuel lines with the composite lines..that is used in newer cars."
>
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/09/23/ten-reasons-to-care-that-e15-ethanol-is-on-the-way-to-your-gas-station/
>
> Mike B.
>
> On 9/1/2013 10:53 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> > I don't think my head is "in the sand". I am just not a doom and gloom
> > person. Some folks in charge think they know what's best regardless of what
> > we want. Here on Long Island we have been dealing with ethanol fuels for at
> > least 15 years now. Yes there are some down sides but my older cars are
> > still running. Yes you need to do some more maintenance such as don't leave
> > fuel in there for years. Yes the increased moisture absorption may make for
> > some corrosion. Carburetors don't like the stuff as the fuel will evaporate
> > and leave the nastiest stuff including water behind to make that white metal
> > corrode. The loss of economy and power is the biggest downside. When I had
> > the gas powered motorhome whenever I drove down south I would run the fuel
> > down and fill up in Virginia. The difference in power was noticeable. It was
> > always like new engine in a tank. We will have to wait and see if 15% is
> > that much more harmful than the 10%.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> > Mike B
> > Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 9:37 AM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Bad fuel economy (solution)
> >
> > Most people have absolutely no idea what this will do to your car. Why even
> > bother looking into the subject, as I have done. You (and most of the rest
> > of society) are obviously happier not knowing the details on this subject.
> > If you do know, then why don't you explain to all of us about the long term
> > effects of using this fuel in older vehicles. It has been well known and
> > thoroughly documented for years. Long-term fuel storage (phase separation)
> > water absorption, damaged steel fuel tanks, steel fuel lines, rubber fuel
> > hoses, fuel pumps (both electric and mechanical), fuel injector erosion and
> > ultimately entire engines destroyed due to overheating from running a fuel
> > that they were never engineered to run. Just keep your head in sand,
> > Dennis.
> > Or should I say, keep drinking the Kool-Aid. Don't worry, you're in good
> > company. We'll all adapt, for sure, when we all get rid of our old
> > vehicles. That's the big plan.
> >
> > Mike B.
> >
> > On 9/1/2013 2:17 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> >> The ethanol is really not going to kill our vehicles any more than
> >> unleaded fuel or modern engine oil or even current antifreeze. The
> >> ethanol bend helps reduce pollution as it is a safer oxygenate then
> >> MTBE. The oxygenate helps reduce carbon monoxide emissions
> >> particularly for short engine cycles and cold climate areas. In
> >> addition ethanol is a cleaner burning fuel than gasoline. There is
> >> probably also a benefit of the ethanol burning characteristics
> >> reducing the formation of NOx. Yes there is an economy and performance
> >> hit. However the EPA is working to have all of use 15% so we just have to
> > adapt. Just like all diesel will be 15% bio-diesel soon.
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> >> Behalf Of Mike B
> >> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 11:40 PM
> >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >> Subject: Re: Bad fuel economy (solution)
> >>
> >> I don't see how adding ethanol to gasoline could translate to even
> >> "maybe a little cleaner environment", when the main reason they do it
> >> is for economical reasons. They water down the gas with something
> >> cheaper that's not as good as gas, then you get the privilege of paying
> > more for it, too!
> >> And because it nets less BTU's of energy to your engine, that means
> >> less miles per gallon of 'fuel' burned, so you end up buying more
> >> gallons! This also means that you're 'net' burning more 'fuel' in
> >> total per year. More fuel burned times every vehicle on the road,
> >> means increased emissions to the atmosphere! All around, a BAD DEAL!
> >> And yes, 15 percent ethanol will kill many older vehicles, like
> >> our beloved VW's! I recently heard about one way to help prolong
> >> their inevitable demise, a fuel additive that uses enzymes to eat the
> >> ethanol and clean out the gunk left in the fuel system;
> >>
> >> http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/14/37/lang,en/
> >>
> >> Mike B.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/30/2013 10:43 PM, JRodgers wrote:
> >>> Over tiome that difference begins to add up in dollars and cents. AND
> >>> what's worse - it's a false economy on fuel pricing. The only place
> >>> we do gain is MAYBE a little cleaner environment - but we are paying
> >>> more for less. Maybe the diesel folks have it right - even at higher
> >>> fuel prices.
> >>>
> >>> I'm concerned about a move towards more alcohol in the fuel. At 15%
> >>> it will kill most vintage cars like Vanagons.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> On 8/30/2013 9:19 PM, KIM BRENNAN wrote:
> >>>> FWIW, I've seen (across 7 cars) a 10% reduction in fuel economy for
> >>>> the gas with 10% alcohol.
> >>>> Only in my camper was it a 20% reduction.
> >>>> This evening I confirmed, that with 10% alcohol gas, the fuel
> >>>> economy is only 11-12mpg, as opposed to 15-16mpg on pure gas.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Aug 30, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Timmy Evens <monkey_lips@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> the btu's in a gallon of 10 % ethanol isn't much different than
> >>>>> straight gas. would not attribute to alcohol. maybe maybe bad O2
> >>>>> sensor?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
--
David McNeely
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