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Date:         Thu, 5 Sep 2013 12:26:44 -0400
Reply-To:     Mike B <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mike B <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bad fuel economy (solution)
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <BAY179-DS11B4C54A0FCDCB4260968A0370@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Saw this on a FB posting from my friend, Charles Kraus <https://www.facebook.com/charles.kraus.18?hc_location=stream>;

"Does anyone know which states have E-10 in the fuel supply? My owners manual on my 1985 vanagon says to not use 10% ethanol.I have replaced my fuel lines with the composite lines..that is used in newer cars."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/09/23/ten-reasons-to-care-that-e15-ethanol-is-on-the-way-to-your-gas-station/

Mike B.

On 9/1/2013 10:53 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote: > I don't think my head is "in the sand". I am just not a doom and gloom > person. Some folks in charge think they know what's best regardless of what > we want. Here on Long Island we have been dealing with ethanol fuels for at > least 15 years now. Yes there are some down sides but my older cars are > still running. Yes you need to do some more maintenance such as don't leave > fuel in there for years. Yes the increased moisture absorption may make for > some corrosion. Carburetors don't like the stuff as the fuel will evaporate > and leave the nastiest stuff including water behind to make that white metal > corrode. The loss of economy and power is the biggest downside. When I had > the gas powered motorhome whenever I drove down south I would run the fuel > down and fill up in Virginia. The difference in power was noticeable. It was > always like new engine in a tank. We will have to wait and see if 15% is > that much more harmful than the 10%. > > Dennis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > Mike B > Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 9:37 AM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: Bad fuel economy (solution) > > Most people have absolutely no idea what this will do to your car. Why even > bother looking into the subject, as I have done. You (and most of the rest > of society) are obviously happier not knowing the details on this subject. > If you do know, then why don't you explain to all of us about the long term > effects of using this fuel in older vehicles. It has been well known and > thoroughly documented for years. Long-term fuel storage (phase separation) > water absorption, damaged steel fuel tanks, steel fuel lines, rubber fuel > hoses, fuel pumps (both electric and mechanical), fuel injector erosion and > ultimately entire engines destroyed due to overheating from running a fuel > that they were never engineered to run. Just keep your head in sand, > Dennis. > Or should I say, keep drinking the Kool-Aid. Don't worry, you're in good > company. We'll all adapt, for sure, when we all get rid of our old > vehicles. That's the big plan. > > Mike B. > > On 9/1/2013 2:17 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote: >> The ethanol is really not going to kill our vehicles any more than >> unleaded fuel or modern engine oil or even current antifreeze. The >> ethanol bend helps reduce pollution as it is a safer oxygenate then >> MTBE. The oxygenate helps reduce carbon monoxide emissions >> particularly for short engine cycles and cold climate areas. In >> addition ethanol is a cleaner burning fuel than gasoline. There is >> probably also a benefit of the ethanol burning characteristics >> reducing the formation of NOx. Yes there is an economy and performance >> hit. However the EPA is working to have all of use 15% so we just have to > adapt. Just like all diesel will be 15% bio-diesel soon. >> Dennis >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On >> Behalf Of Mike B >> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 11:40 PM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: Bad fuel economy (solution) >> >> I don't see how adding ethanol to gasoline could translate to even >> "maybe a little cleaner environment", when the main reason they do it >> is for economical reasons. They water down the gas with something >> cheaper that's not as good as gas, then you get the privilege of paying > more for it, too! >> And because it nets less BTU's of energy to your engine, that means >> less miles per gallon of 'fuel' burned, so you end up buying more >> gallons! This also means that you're 'net' burning more 'fuel' in >> total per year. More fuel burned times every vehicle on the road, >> means increased emissions to the atmosphere! All around, a BAD DEAL! >> And yes, 15 percent ethanol will kill many older vehicles, like >> our beloved VW's! I recently heard about one way to help prolong >> their inevitable demise, a fuel additive that uses enzymes to eat the >> ethanol and clean out the gunk left in the fuel system; >> >> http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/14/37/lang,en/ >> >> Mike B. >> >> >> On 8/30/2013 10:43 PM, JRodgers wrote: >>> Over tiome that difference begins to add up in dollars and cents. AND >>> what's worse - it's a false economy on fuel pricing. The only place >>> we do gain is MAYBE a little cleaner environment - but we are paying >>> more for less. Maybe the diesel folks have it right - even at higher >>> fuel prices. >>> >>> I'm concerned about a move towards more alcohol in the fuel. At 15% >>> it will kill most vintage cars like Vanagons. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On 8/30/2013 9:19 PM, KIM BRENNAN wrote: >>>> FWIW, I've seen (across 7 cars) a 10% reduction in fuel economy for >>>> the gas with 10% alcohol. >>>> Only in my camper was it a 20% reduction. >>>> This evening I confirmed, that with 10% alcohol gas, the fuel >>>> economy is only 11-12mpg, as opposed to 15-16mpg on pure gas. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 30, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Timmy Evens <monkey_lips@YAHOO.COM> wrote: >>>> >>>>> the btu's in a gallon of 10 % ethanol isn't much different than >>>>> straight gas. would not attribute to alcohol. maybe maybe bad O2 >>>>> sensor? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android >>>>> >>>>>


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