Date:         Fri, 4 Oct 2013 10:22:48 -0700
Reply-To:     Keith Hughes <keithahughes@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Keith Hughes <keithahughes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Vanagon AC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1



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Date:    Thu, 3 Oct 2013 05:36:45 -0700
From:    Stephen Grisanti <bike2vcu@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Vanagon AC

Yeah, I knew about the downside to R134a.=A0 They also say it does not cool=
as well as other refrigerants, but that was part of my "nothing to lose" r=
ationale.=0A=A0=0AThe hose process is pretty well documented in a couple of=
Samba threads.=A0 One guy did his whole '87 Westy system (wish it had been=
mine) by removing all hoses and having new barrier hose with the old conne=
ctions made up, then reinstalled.=A0 Inspirational, and I think the hose wo=
rk cost was about $300, plus whatever else he did.=A0 Sure beats the two gr=
and estimates for repair reported by me and some others.=0A=A0=0AStephen=0A=
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: JRodgers <jrodgers113@gmai=
l.com>=0ATo: Stephen Grisanti <bike2vcu@YAHOO.COM> =0ACc: vanagon@GERRY.VAN=
AGON.COM =0ASent: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 11:31 PM=0ASubject: Re: Vanago=
n AC=0A  =0A=0AAs I understand it, if you convert to R134a refrigerant the =
system will =0Aleak because the 134a molecules are smaller and find their w=
ay through =0Athe hoses.It's a slow process and if all the connections are =
up to date =0Awith the right kind of seals - an annual refill is about all =
you will =0Aneed. The only way around that problem is to replaces the hoses=
- which =0Ais rather pricey.=0A=0AJohn=0A=0A=0AOn 10/2/2013 8:41 AM, Steph=
en Grisanti wrote:=0A> Here in Virginia the A/C is essential.=A0 My '87 Wes=
ty had a complete system but it blew hot.=A0 The pile of receipts from the =
two POs showed a lot of money spent on service and repair.=A0 I figured I h=
ad nothing to lose by playing with it so tried one of the cheapo R134a conv=
ersion kits from an auto parts store. That worked to cool things down.=A0 I=
suspect a leak somewhere since I must recharge annually, but that is very =
little trouble for the real benefit it provides.=0A>=0A> My new-to-me '91 W=
esty, on the other hand, is missing the belt and the PO (the original owner=
) told me it never worked reliably, so I do not know what I will discover w=
hen I begin tinkering with that system but I think that work can wait for s=
pring with other jobs having priority.=A0 Good luck!=0A>=0A> Stephen=0A>=0A=
>=0A> ________________________________=0A>=A0  From: Alain Thibault <alaint=
hibault@TELUS.NET>=0A> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM=0A> Sent: Wednesday, O=
ctober 2, 2013 12:20 AM=0A> Subject: Vanagon AC=0A>=0A>=0A> Allo=0A> My 86 =
comes with AC but the belt is not there... I presume since AC is not a nece=
ssity here in Vancouver BC that it was left unrepaired. Any idea if the AC =
in a Vanagon is something prone to break and not worth the expenses? What i=
s the reputation of the AC system in the 1986-1991vanagons?=0A> Alain=0A> W=
esty 1986=0A>=0A> Sent from my iPad 2=0A>

A number of years ago I did the same thing on my '86 Westy.  I have a Tiico conversion with accessories (PS/ALT/Compressor) from a '97 Jetta.  The compressor is designed for R-134A, and I converted over after installing the serpentine belt and accessories.  I pulled all of the hoses and took them to Arizona Mobile Air (www.ackits.com) since I live in Phoenix AZ.  Fabrication of new hoses and fittings was about $200 at the time, along with a new drier and a parallel flow condenser it ran out about $300.  The condenser I put in was the largest they had that would fit in the space, and was listed as a 15" x 17", but that included the manifolds as well, so the "coil" area was smaller.  I also replaced the expansion valve, and used the stock evaporator and fan (mine is the old style with a single blower with dual squirrel cages).  This setup worked OK, and was pretty similar to the original performance with R-12.  That is, lame.

Finally got tired of it being barely adequate and made some major modifications this year.  After looking high and low for a larger parallel flow condenser that would work, I found a 16" x 22" at Nostalgic Air (www.nostalgicair.com) - really great folks to deal with BTW - that has about 25% more "coil" area than my old one.  I also pulled the ac cabinet and evaporator.  I modified the evaporator plastic housing with it's own bottom and rear facing panels so that it's a stand-alone unit, not tied to the cabinet.  I built a new cabinet that extends 4" further forward than the stock one, and built a new plenum for the existing evap fan and ran round 2.5" ducts from the plenum to 2 4.5" round vents and 2 1.75x4" rectangular vents that I installed in the face of the cabinet.  I also installed a 4" round duct on the underside of the cabinet on the drivers side that can be opened when my wife sleeps back there when we're on the road.  Makes it nice and
 cool.  That vent is also attached by 2.5" duct to the evap fan plenum that feeds the cabinet face vents.  All the ducts and vents were from Nostalgic Air as well.

To get more air up front, I added another single shaft evap fan and cage on the passenger's side of the plastic evaporator housing ($95 from AAPAK in Phx).  I fabricated the fan housing for it, and connected it to the evaporator housing with a 3" PVC elbow.  I had to build a baffle inside the evap housing to separate the new fan intake from the passenger side intake for the original evap fan so the fans wouldn't cavitate.  The new fan I connected to the passenger side fresh air vent panel (above the sliding door).  I sealed off all of the original vent opening in the body, and the removable panel (where the stock vents were - I covered them each with an extra 12V light fixture).  At the front of the removable panel, I installed another two 1.75x4" rectangular vents that can be directed at the driver and somewhat towards the passenger seat.

We just got back from a 3K mile trip, and it was a great improvement.  The extra condenser area lowered the discharge temps considerably, and the extra evap fan helps get cool air up front.  The velocity of the air coming from the round vents in the a/c cabinet face is much higher than the original as well, and that helps.  I've found it works better with the rectangular vents closed, so if I did it again, I'd probably put three round vents instead of the way I did it.  I did have to build an additional hanger for the front of the evaporator housing to support the weight of the evap fan (the new fan is supported by the passenger side evaporator bracket).  With this setup, I can pull the a/c cabinet out by removing 6 bolts, pulling the flex duct from the vents, and dropping it down.  The evaporator can stay put.  With the cabinet out, the evaporator is easily accessible for maintenance should it need it.

And yes, this was a big PITA, but now with all the frustration and false starts behind me, yeah it was worth it.  It also gave me room to put 6.5" speakers back there instead of the 4" max allowed by the stock vent plenum.

Keith Hughes
'86 Westy Tiico (Marvin)