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Date:         Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:53:49 -0800
Reply-To:     Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Propex alternative?
Comments: To: Don Hanson <dhanson928@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <CAHTkEuJQO+AoHKvP-hZ8wqiUk-CHFm=KezTHYO9mnmc7L6ZAtw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

"A dedicated heater like the propex or others wouldn't get much use in our van...."

And such machines burns through a lot of propane quickly. Propane is problematic to me, because it is expensive, and it requires substantially-strong packaging, which adds to the price. Kerosene, OTOH, is less expensive, BTU-wise, and is packaged much less expensively. My Dietz lantern and Aladdin kerosene heater provide light and heat much more efficiently. In comparison to a Mr. Heater Buddy or similar propane-bottle heater, my kerosene heater positively sips fuel. Looking at the specs for the Propex, I get the impression that if I were to use one to heat near-freezing mornings for more than a few days in a row, the van's tank would empty quickly.

-- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, Bend, Ore.

On 11/04/2013 05:26 PM, Don Hanson wrote: > Woolens and down.... > > For wet climates, nothing is better than wool...For cold, nothing > beats down. Getting up inside my van I turn the stove and my coffee > pot on for long enough to perk the coffee...That warms up my tin top to > make it comfortable to get up out of my expedition weight down bag.... > I pull on a light down sweater and put on my down booties, if I am > planning on staying in...I have Ugg boots for outside...A ski hat, > too....comfy to drink my coffee and get going...I really see no reason > to drive somewhere and just stay inside my van, ....camping... > It's great transport for us and our toys and dogs..it's a nice motel > room with a view, it's a great dressing room and kitchen, and nice > shelter in a rainstorm.......but hanging out inside, it leaves a bit to > be desired.... > > I saw a 'heater' made from nesting clay pots with a couple of votive > candles inside....that would do in my tin top, if I were to be confined > there during bad weather for some reason....A dedicated heater like the > propex or others wouldn't get much use in our van.... > > > On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Rocket J Squirrel > <camping.elliott@gmail.com <mailto:camping.elliott@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Ol Al writes to say, "Lighting one candle with nominal airflow will keep > the inside warmish until you can caffeine or mate' up" > > I used to use one of the smaller Dietz kerosene lanterns lit inside the > Westy for (a) light and (b) quite perceptible heat in your colder > evenings. They are quite nice and the added warmth is welcome. The soot > blackening the overhead, not so much. I have since added LED lighting > strips and have relegated the lantern to the outside. The new inside > lights provide much nicer lighting but, since they are so darn > efficient, kick off no heat. Lose one, win one. > > "Several of our esteemed adventurers keep the lid up but with a heat > isolating membrane over the upstairs to keep a modicum of the expensive > hot air (we see a lot of that around these days) in the cabin." > > I sleep on the downstairs bed with my head toward the front of the van. > On your more frigid nights -- like in the teens -- I definitely feel a > downdraft from the upper deck onto my head. I wonder about having some > kind of fabric snap-in seal that would close off of the upper deck and > prevent that downdraft. > > And in the morning, arising when it is in the low-30s (F) or lower in > the van, I fire up the Mr. Heater Buddy (for about 30 minutes, that > thing chews through 16.4oz bottles of propane at a fearsome rate, and a > Propex heater would empty the van's stock tank quickly, too) before > bringing in the preheated kerosene heater and think to myself, I think: > sure a lot of hot air up in the top of this thing, sure wish I had a > gentle ceiling fan to bring that hot air down to me where I am sitting, > wrapped in woolens and down. > > -- > Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott > 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, > Bend, Ore. > > On 11/04/2013 01:47 PM, Al Knoll wrote: > > Following the thread along. Seems there are several popular heater > types, ranging from the unglazed ceramic inverted on the westy > stove, > to full blown furnaces (propex is a furnace). Coleman (RIP) had > propane catalytics for years and mine still work pretty well. Then > other radiant heaters like buddys, black cats, and so on > rounding out > the bunch, with the exception of Rocket's kero blaster they all > run on > either petrol or LPG. Now since amount of energy going from fuel to > water and CO2 is gained by breaking CH bonds is proportional to the > number of bonds broken in the process, the most efficient is the > Kero > using long chain hydrocarbons as the energy source. The least > efficient is the Propane. So for more BTU per buck stick with the > most efficient. > > Lighting one candle with nominal airflow will keep the inside > warmish > until you can caffeine or mate' up. Several of our esteemed > adventurers keep the lid up but with a heat isolating membrane over > the upstairs to keep a modicum of the expensive hot air (we see > a lot > of that around these days) in the cabin. Bob has one I think. A > sleepytime hat will do wonders for those of little thatch. And > I use > a makeshift shawl around my shoulders made of dead synchilla skins, > adjusted to cover those nasty drafts. > > Oh ya, I do have a wondrous old propex which whines away under the > seat on occasion. > > Some years a go a fellow in colorado made and marketed a certified > radiant heater with an exhaust system to vac the nasties outside. > Disremember the fellow and the name of the heater. > > The organic squirrel coats can be a problem as the squirrels tend to > come out of hibernation and scurry around inside the coat. > > Pensionerd., > >


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