Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 20:35:09 -0500
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Propex alternative?
In-Reply-To: <kQyT1m00K08X5Fr01QyUZV>
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Presence of CO and too little O-2 are separate (though ultimately related) matters when it comes to breathing in a confined space with a space heater. First, the device consumes oxygen, making less available for the living beings in the same space. That in itself is problematic, as you mentioned ("running out of oxygen is kinda bad"). But it is generally only after the oxygen is depleted somewhat that CO rears its head, due to incomplete combustion of fuel at the burner. This is beyond "running out of oxygen." The CO itself is toxic. Generally, before things get to this level, the living beings in the space are already at least groggy from low oxygen levels, and so are not very able to do anything about the high CO level. That is especially so if they sleep with the heater operating.
It may be that you have been providing ample ventilation, and thus the device has been burning the fuel completely or nearly so.
I opt for no unvented heater in my living space, though of course I do use the cooking stove, with at least a window cracked open an inch or so, when I am up and about.
Down bags and warm clothing are wonderful for sleeping and daytime activity respectfully. I do not sleep with dogs, though I usually do let sleeping dogs lie. I do sleep with another person, though with maturity we have found that each to his and her separate bag allows better sleep conditions than a more intimate arrangement would.
mcneely
---- tom ring <taring@TARING.ORG> wrote:
> One thing I learned during my heating experiments in the last 2 weeks is that
> my Coleman catalytic produces 0 CO (on the digi display) as monitored by the CO
> alarm I have in the van. I know it works as the engine can set it off when I
> have the engine cover off when I'm working on it and it's running.
>
> I was quite happy to discover that. It's still a very good idea to have decent
> ventilation when using one as running out of oxygen is kinda bad.
>
> tom
>
> On 30 Oct 2013 at 23:40, Karl Mullendore wrote:
>
> > This question comes up every year. Three basic options (well, truly safe
> > options), from low to high in price, with my observations:
> > 1) Atwood, been around forever, 75% efficiency = 9000 btu. Probably find one
> > for $300-400. Does the job but doesn't fit so well in the stock Westy cabinets
> > 2) Propex, been around a long time also, and continuously improved, 93%
> > efficiency = 6500/9700 btu depending on model. Half or less of the physical
> > size of the Atwood. $735-840.
> > 3) Espar and Webasto gas/diesel heaters - well established design, multiple
> > speeds and heater levels, efficiency good, half the size of a Propex, but
> > 1.5 to 2 times the price. Yearly maintenance required, which the propane
> > heaters usually do not.
> > I've had vans with all of the above and all served the purpose. My favorite
> > is the Espar diesel version as I usually install these in my personal diesel
> > Syncros.
> > What I wouldn't use is a catalytic or other non-vented heater. Sleeping bags
> > are much cheaper. I'd sooner build a tiny wood stove. :-)
> > Karl
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Tom Ring K0TAR EN34hx
>
> Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers,
> accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.
> -----------------------------------------
--
David McNeely
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