Date:         Sat, 2 Nov 2013 08:34:54 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Propex alternative?
In-Reply-To:  <20131101213509.OC8LO.161795.imail@eastrmwml107>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I have spent nearly a hundred nights camped with an Olympian Wave 3
catalytic heater and have no reason to expect that I will not survive many
more. It's flat and about the size of a sheet of paper. It mounts to a
wall. It plumbs in to to the propane tank or uses a screw on cannister. It
is renown for how little fuel it uses and therefore how little oxygen it
consumes. I crack a window, but that's kind of a superstition since the
poptop canvas passes much more air than a cracked window would.

They are pricier than the ones you find in camping and home stores but they
use a lot less fuel.

When I camp during cold weather (less than 20 degrees, say) I can take my
40 degree bags instead of the bigger ones. It saves a lot of space.

Jim


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:35 PM, Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@cox.net> wrote:

> Presence of CO and too little O-2 are separate (though ultimately related)
> matters when it comes to breathing in a confined space with a space heater.
>  First, the device consumes oxygen, making less available for the living
> beings in the same space.  That in itself is problematic, as you mentioned
> ("running out of oxygen is kinda bad").  But it is generally only after the
> oxygen is depleted somewhat that CO rears its head, due to incomplete
> combustion of fuel at the burner.  This is beyond "running out of oxygen."
>  The CO itself is toxic.  Generally, before things get to this level, the
> living beings in the space are already at least groggy from low oxygen
> levels, and so are not very able to do anything about the high CO level.
>  That is especially so if they sleep with the heater operating.
>
> It may be that you have been providing ample ventilation, and thus the
> device has been burning the fuel completely or nearly so.
>
> I opt for no unvented heater in my living space, though of course I do use
> the cooking stove, with at least a window cracked open an inch or so, when
> I am up and about.
>
> Down bags and warm clothing are wonderful for sleeping and daytime
> activity respectfully.  I do not sleep with dogs, though I usually do let
> sleeping dogs lie.  I do sleep with another person, though with maturity we
> have found that each to his and her separate bag allows better sleep
> conditions than a more intimate arrangement would.
>
> mcneely
>
> ---- tom ring <taring@TARING.ORG> wrote:
> > One thing I learned during my heating experiments in the last 2 weeks is
> that
> > my Coleman catalytic produces 0 CO (on the digi display) as monitored by
> the CO
> > alarm I have in the van.  I know it works as the engine can set it off
> when I
> > have the engine cover off when I'm working on it and it's running.
> >
> > I was quite happy to discover that.  It's still a very good idea to have
> decent
> > ventilation when using one as running out of oxygen is kinda bad.
> >
> > tom
> >
> > On 30 Oct 2013 at 23:40, Karl Mullendore wrote:
> >
> > > This question comes up every year. Three basic options (well, truly
> safe
> > > options), from low to high in price, with my observations:
> > > 1) Atwood, been around forever, 75% efficiency = 9000 btu. Probably
> find one
> > > for $300-400. Does the job but doesn't fit so well in the stock Westy
> cabinets
> > > 2) Propex, been around a long time also, and continuously improved, 93%
> > > efficiency = 6500/9700 btu depending on model. Half or less of the
> physical
> > > size of the Atwood. $735-840.
> > > 3) Espar and Webasto gas/diesel heaters - well established design,
> multiple
> > > speeds and heater levels, efficiency good, half the size of a Propex,
> but
> > > 1.5 to 2 times the price. Yearly maintenance required, which the
> propane
> > > heaters usually do not.
> > > I've had vans with all of the above and all served the purpose. My
> favorite
> > > is the Espar diesel version as I usually install these in my personal
> diesel
> > > Syncros.
> > > What I wouldn't use is a catalytic or other non-vented heater.
> Sleeping bags
> > > are much cheaper. I'd sooner build a tiny wood stove. :-)
> > > Karl
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Tom Ring K0TAR EN34hx
> >
> > Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers,
> > accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.
> > -----------------------------------------
>
> --
> David McNeely
>