Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 00:45:51 -0700
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: More questions pertaining to my 88 model Bluestar project
In-Reply-To: <52A7EED7.4050309@turbovans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
I'm afraid I'm going to have to second most of what Scott said ~ I
always 50/50 premix my Eng'Coolent with distilled H2O no matter where
I happen to be living or mixing it ~ so that there is no question
about what is flowing through the CoolingSystem of the Vehicles I work
on &Also because distilled H2O by it self has a significantly lower
FreezingPoint then normal "Contaminated" tap H2O ~~ But ~~ I would
certainly never Rudely BeLittle someone for not doing things the way I
do them ~~
Steve ~ I do hope that you get your 88BlueStarProject issues sorted
out & that we can be of some help ~
ORR ~ DeanB
On 10 Dec , 2013, at 9:49 PM, Scott Daniel wrote:
> Whew.....I must protest about the semi-insulting 'you message' the
> post
> below starts with.
>
> and ..now to the tech side..
> fwiw ...sure ..I suppose if it's desperatately freezing and a-frz and
> water doesn't get a chance to mix well...one could have issues with
> water freezing ...though in my exerience that's pretty unlikely.
>
> and sure ..ideally one mixes carefully measured amounts of H20 and A-
> frz
> in a container..mixes it well, then pours that into the engine.
> It's usually not say 15 degrees where I am ( it is now though ) ..so
> it's less critical usually.
> and ...
> myself ........enjoying effective low tech methods...I often pour a-
> frz
> for a count of 10,
> then to the same count with H20.
> that will get close enough to 50/50 just fine.
>
> And it's not like it 'has to be very accurate about the 50/50
> proportions..the tolerance range on that is huge..
> unless you really expect way below zero temps.
> ( 50-50 protects against freezing to 34 below zero F...way more
> anti-freezing protection than we need.......so there's lots of slack
> in
> that mixture formula. )
>
> I am sorry ...
> a-frz and water mix super easily ..very high affinity for each
> other. I
> can not imagine H20 and a-frz not mixing readily and easily.
> I have only put a-frz and water into engines.......
> including fresh rebuilt empty ones about 10,000 times...and that may
> not
> be that big an exaggeration even. Like since 1964 and I have worked on
> tens of thousands of cars...on 30 different makes etc.
>
> Being on the west coast almost forever where hard water is not an
> issue..
> I tend to not comment on people's recommendations where their water
> may be hard.
>
> I'm a total nut about corrosion too ...
> can't stand it at all. Heck ...half of what I do on vanagons is about
> addressing corrosion.
> I have never had a problem, on the West Coast, using clean tap water.
> And never had a-frz and H20 that did not instantly mix .
>
> well....it's known that the silcates in VW's blue phosphate-free a-
> frz (
> now replacded by something else ) ..that the silcates could be rough
> on
> water pumps..right ?
>
> of course ...one should make sure all the pipes and hoses are intact
> before filling and running..!
> just a flukey goof up , no big deal. :-)
>
> Everyone has their own methods of course..
> and as long as they produce 'the result' ......great, that's what
> matters.
> Personally ...I would suggest to give advice and guidance ....but try
> not to instill fear because someone didn't do something the 4000 %
> perfect german 'factory' way. These are not Ferrari's.
>
> People need to not do dumb or sloppy things of course..
> but not recognizing that there is leeway here and there....I can't
> support that really.
>
> Here's what turns me on in car repair ..
> 'all brand new and expensive' ..doesn't really impress me. I think
> that
> is often wasteful .
> I am really not impressed with sloppy bad work at all.
>
> what impresses me is 'doing just the right thing'...no more or less
> than
> what will produce an excellent result at the most favorable cost and
> effort expenditure.
>
> here's one of my sayings ..a real sign of Mastery is expending
> exactly
> the amount of energy, and no more than is needed accomplish the task
> at hand.
>
> some readers may appreciate this relative to that ..in Judo, I've
> heard
> that it's boring to watch masters compete against each other ..because
> their movements are so subtle ..not huge efforts or thrashing around
> ........just subtle applications of exactly the right energy , and
> no more.
>
> Let's talk about the Psychic Healing factor on Vanagons sometime..
> or repairs performed remotely purely with mental power. ( which is
> why I
> always want to know WHERE the frick something is ..because I am
> already
> thinking about what it might need.
> and like a pshchic ...knowing the location helps a lot.
> and ..a bitch here...I see constantly that in modern times people are
> 'autistic' where anything to do with Location is concerned.
> Chronically .
> Like "how much is shipping on that part ? but I won't say to where.'
> are people getting dumber ??? I think they are.
> and anti-frz and water can't help mixing very easily.
>
> Scott
>
>
> On 12/10/2013 5:29 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>> It seems you may be trying real hard to mess this up. Since it is
>> winter you
>> should not be adding antifreeze and water separately. Even after
>> you do get
>> the engine running the water can stay separated for quite a while
>> and the
>> water slugs will freeze. So can the undiluted antifreeze. Yes,
>> antifreeze
>> needs to mix water for at least a 70-30 mix or it can become a
>> slushy mess
>> and keep the cooling system from working. Then if you are in an
>> area with
>> hard water you should not use that in your engine. Regardless of
>> type of
>> antifreeze hard water over time will do the most damage. The minerals
>> precipitate out and the abrasive characteristics will eat water
>> pump seals
>> wear out heater cores from the inside out.
>>
>> When you get ready to try this again get a helper if can. You want
>> to start
>> the engine, hold it at 1,800 to 2,000 rpm and add coolant as the
>> water pump
>> sucks it down. Your helper can watch the bleeder at the radiator.
>> There
>> should be coolant at the bleeder in 30 seconds to a minute. Once it
>> flows,
>> close the bleeder, top off the tank, install the cap, and then let
>> the
>> engine return to idle. This should all be done before the engine
>> warms. Any
>> air left will self bleed unless there is a problem.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Steve Cotsford
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:08 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: More questions pertaining to my 88 model Bluestar
>> project
>>
>> Well today I bought antifreeze and started putting it in. I was
>> able to
>> put in 2 quarts and about 2 quarts or water. I removed the screw
>> from the
>> top of the radiator and ran the engine to circulate the coolant.
>> I was
>> somewhat surprised that I could not put any more in and I was
>> expecting
>> something from the top of the radiator . The engine was running
>> nicely.
>> Then all of a sudden I heard a pop and antifreeze hit the ground up
>> the
>> front with a little water vapour so I turned every thing off. It
>> seemed
>> pretty clear that coolant was circulating as I could feel all the
>> hoses had
>> warmed up and the engine seemed pretty smooth.
>> I looked under the front and saw coolant so I lowered the spare
>> tire tray
>> and got the tire out. It soon became apparent. Back in May
>> when I
>> installed the engine I was under the van and checked out a lot of
>> things.
>> In my six months of clinics and convalescing however I had not
>> thought too
>> much about it. I had not dropped the spare tire tray
>> before. It
>> turns out that both the hoses that take coolant to the radiator and
>> back to
>> the engine were totally missing and plastic caps had been shoved
>> onto the
>> pipe ends. The pop that I had heard was not the rad that had
>> burst, but
>> one of the caps coming off the coolant pipe. Call me naive if
>> you want
>> but it had not occurred to me that the hoses would be totally
>> missing !!.
>> I had expected eventually a hose in poor condition and my visual tour
>> underneath had seen nothing so I thought it was safe to fill the
>> system with
>> coolant and antifreeze. I was seriously wrong ! Oh well.
>> At least
>> the rad has not burst....yet and its no wonder that nothing had
>> come out of
>> the top of the rad seeing that nothing had gone in the bottom.
>> Time to
>> get some parts on order and fully check the front end of the system
>> and
>> everything in that area. I saw an electrical fan behind the
>> radiator and
>> there is a silver nipple naked on the back of the motor. Time to
>> study
>> more stuff. Steve
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Neil N wrote:
>>
>>> Larrys roadhaus link may help (this is for shops but may provide
>>> lead?)
>>>
>>> http://www.roadhaus.com/shops.php
>>>
>>> Can Vanagon samba members be searched by location? If so, maybe
>>> leads
>>> that way too?
>>>
>>> Neil.
>>>
>>> On 12/9/13, Steve Cotsford <cotsford@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does anyone know Vanagon parts sources and gurus, here in the
>>>> southeast?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Neil n
>>>
>>> Blog: tubaneil.blogspot.ca
>>>
>>> '88 Westy http://tinyurl.com/c8rlw6p
>>>
>>> '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>>
>>> Vanagon VAG *Gas* inline-VR Engine Swap Group:
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/d7gd5ej
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