Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 21:27:07 -0500
Reply-To: Steve Cotsford <cotsford@AOL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Steve Cotsford <cotsford@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: More questions pertaining to my 88 model Bluestar project
In-Reply-To: <BAY406-EAS424F1800E80D57914B32C2DA0DD0@phx.gbl>
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Thanks for your advice Dennis. I have been using antifreeze most of my motoring life and never had heard that they could not be used separately. I have always filled a system by adding them separately and then run the engine with the intention of them mixing by circulating in the engine and system. The water we have is not hard as we are a few feet from the top of a mountain and comes from a well that is for our house alone. Today it must have been about 50/50 and it was pretty consistently mixed and circulated, even the stuff that hit the ground. I will mix it beforehand in future though. Thanks.
My very first water cooled engine used water alone with no antifreeze. It was a Scott Squirrel motorcycle that dated from the late 1920's that I rode in the early 1960's. The engine had cast iron cylinders in an aluminum crankcase and the radiator was brass. The radiator cap was solid brass too and had no pressure relief valve and water circulated by thermosyphoning. Yes it was old fashioned engineering and I wish I still had the thing. Knees were always warm in winter as they were behind the warm rad :-) We did not get extreme cold in winter over there. Where I live now it does get cold due to altitude so I am using more modern methods and materials and I will listen to those who are more experienced with them :-)
My next job is to buy new hoses to replace the missing ones, flush the cooling system and then I will add the premixed coolant in the method you describe. Thanks for your advice. Steve
On Dec 10, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> It seems you may be trying real hard to mess this up. Since it is winter you
> should not be adding antifreeze and water separately. Even after you do get
> the engine running the water can stay separated for quite a while and the
> water slugs will freeze. So can the undiluted antifreeze. Yes, antifreeze
> needs to mix water for at least a 70-30 mix or it can become a slushy mess
> and keep the cooling system from working. Then if you are in an area with
> hard water you should not use that in your engine. Regardless of type of
> antifreeze hard water over time will do the most damage. The minerals
> precipitate out and the abrasive characteristics will eat water pump seals
> wear out heater cores from the inside out.
>
> When you get ready to try this again get a helper if can. You want to start
> the engine, hold it at 1,800 to 2,000 rpm and add coolant as the water pump
> sucks it down. Your helper can watch the bleeder at the radiator. There
> should be coolant at the bleeder in 30 seconds to a minute. Once it flows,
> close the bleeder, top off the tank, install the cap, and then let the
> engine return to idle. This should all be done before the engine warms. Any
> air left will self bleed unless there is a problem.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Steve Cotsford
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:08 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: More questions pertaining to my 88 model Bluestar project
>
> Well today I bought antifreeze and started putting it in. I was able to
> put in 2 quarts and about 2 quarts or water. I removed the screw from the
> top of the radiator and ran the engine to circulate the coolant. I was
> somewhat surprised that I could not put any more in and I was expecting
> something from the top of the radiator . The engine was running nicely.
> Then all of a sudden I heard a pop and antifreeze hit the ground up the
> front with a little water vapour so I turned every thing off. It seemed
> pretty clear that coolant was circulating as I could feel all the hoses had
> warmed up and the engine seemed pretty smooth.
> I looked under the front and saw coolant so I lowered the spare tire tray
> and got the tire out. It soon became apparent. Back in May when I
> installed the engine I was under the van and checked out a lot of things.
> In my six months of clinics and convalescing however I had not thought too
> much about it. I had not dropped the spare tire tray before. It
> turns out that both the hoses that take coolant to the radiator and back to
> the engine were totally missing and plastic caps had been shoved onto the
> pipe ends. The pop that I had heard was not the rad that had burst, but
> one of the caps coming off the coolant pipe. Call me naive if you want
> but it had not occurred to me that the hoses would be totally missing !!.
> I had expected eventually a hose in poor condition and my visual tour
> underneath had seen nothing so I thought it was safe to fill the system with
> coolant and antifreeze. I was seriously wrong ! Oh well. At least
> the rad has not burst....yet and its no wonder that nothing had come out of
> the top of the rad seeing that nothing had gone in the bottom. Time to
> get some parts on order and fully check the front end of the system and
> everything in that area. I saw an electrical fan behind the radiator and
> there is a silver nipple naked on the back of the motor. Time to study
> more stuff. Steve
>
> On Dec 10, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Neil N wrote:
>
>> Larrys roadhaus link may help (this is for shops but may provide
>> lead?)
>>
>> http://www.roadhaus.com/shops.php
>>
>> Can Vanagon samba members be searched by location? If so, maybe leads
>> that way too?
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>> On 12/9/13, Steve Cotsford <cotsford@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone know Vanagon parts sources and gurus, here in the southeast?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Neil n
>>
>> Blog: tubaneil.blogspot.ca
>>
>> '88 Westy http://tinyurl.com/c8rlw6p
>>
>> '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>
>> Vanagon VAG *Gas* inline-VR Engine Swap Group:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/d7gd5ej
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