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Date:         Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:30:55 -0800
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Organization: Cosmic Reminders
Subject:      Re: More questions pertaining to my 88 model Bluestar project
Comments: To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <92830EB5-7188-4C8C-98D8-06C8B640AB7E@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

How long did she run it ? I'd say a good 20+ minutes of running ...under load, after the t-stat has opened and both heaters are kicking out hot air .. is the minimum needed to mix the two juices in situ.

Good example of how 'they are designed and built to run' ... they're not built to sit .. or to run for very short periods.. or to run below temp. they are built and designed to be run at full operating temp ..

And and other than rests between proper running periods ..they are built to run - - and that's what's best for them.

These are some of the least idiot-proof cars ever built.. at the same time they are amazingly tolerant of misunderstanding , abuse and neglect.

Scott

On 12/11/2013 4:13 PM, Jim Felder wrote: > However I had a Vanagon set on the road to ruin by a daughter who added water and then antifreeze in an approximate 50/50 mix. She didn't run the engine and the pure water that was trapped in the rear heater box ruined the core and the valve. > > Ya gotta mix it somehow. > > Jim > >> On Dec 11, 2013, at 1:45 AM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET> wrote: >> >> I'm afraid I'm going to have to second most of what Scott said ~ I >> always 50/50 premix my Eng'Coolent with distilled H2O no matter where >> I happen to be living or mixing it ~ so that there is no question >> about what is flowing through the CoolingSystem of the Vehicles I work >> on &Also because distilled H2O by it self has a significantly lower >> FreezingPoint then normal "Contaminated" tap H2O ~~ But ~~ I would >> certainly never Rudely BeLittle someone for not doing things the way I >> do them ~~ >> Steve ~ I do hope that you get your 88BlueStarProject issues sorted >> out & that we can be of some help ~ >> >> ORR ~ DeanB >> >>> On 10 Dec , 2013, at 9:49 PM, Scott Daniel wrote: >>> >>> Whew.....I must protest about the semi-insulting 'you message' the >>> post >>> below starts with. >>> >>> and ..now to the tech side.. >>> fwiw ...sure ..I suppose if it's desperatately freezing and a-frz and >>> water doesn't get a chance to mix well...one could have issues with >>> water freezing ...though in my exerience that's pretty unlikely. >>> >>> and sure ..ideally one mixes carefully measured amounts of H20 and A- >>> frz >>> in a container..mixes it well, then pours that into the engine. >>> It's usually not say 15 degrees where I am ( it is now though ) ..so >>> it's less critical usually. >>> and ... >>> myself ........enjoying effective low tech methods...I often pour a- >>> frz >>> for a count of 10, >>> then to the same count with H20. >>> that will get close enough to 50/50 just fine. >>> >>> And it's not like it 'has to be very accurate about the 50/50 >>> proportions..the tolerance range on that is huge.. >>> unless you really expect way below zero temps. >>> ( 50-50 protects against freezing to 34 below zero F...way more >>> anti-freezing protection than we need.......so there's lots of slack >>> in >>> that mixture formula. ) >>> >>> I am sorry ... >>> a-frz and water mix super easily ..very high affinity for each >>> other. I >>> can not imagine H20 and a-frz not mixing readily and easily. >>> I have only put a-frz and water into engines....... >>> including fresh rebuilt empty ones about 10,000 times...and that may >>> not >>> be that big an exaggeration even. Like since 1964 and I have worked on >>> tens of thousands of cars...on 30 different makes etc. >>> >>> Being on the west coast almost forever where hard water is not an >>> issue.. >>> I tend to not comment on people's recommendations where their water >>> may be hard. >>> >>> I'm a total nut about corrosion too ... >>> can't stand it at all. Heck ...half of what I do on vanagons is about >>> addressing corrosion. >>> I have never had a problem, on the West Coast, using clean tap water. >>> And never had a-frz and H20 that did not instantly mix . >>> >>> well....it's known that the silcates in VW's blue phosphate-free a- >>> frz ( >>> now replacded by something else ) ..that the silcates could be rough >>> on >>> water pumps..right ? >>> >>> of course ...one should make sure all the pipes and hoses are intact >>> before filling and running..! >>> just a flukey goof up , no big deal. :-) >>> >>> Everyone has their own methods of course.. >>> and as long as they produce 'the result' ......great, that's what >>> matters. >>> Personally ...I would suggest to give advice and guidance ....but try >>> not to instill fear because someone didn't do something the 4000 % >>> perfect german 'factory' way. These are not Ferrari's. >>> >>> People need to not do dumb or sloppy things of course.. >>> but not recognizing that there is leeway here and there....I can't >>> support that really. >>> >>> Here's what turns me on in car repair .. >>> 'all brand new and expensive' ..doesn't really impress me. I think >>> that >>> is often wasteful . >>> I am really not impressed with sloppy bad work at all. >>> >>> what impresses me is 'doing just the right thing'...no more or less >>> than >>> what will produce an excellent result at the most favorable cost and >>> effort expenditure. >>> >>> here's one of my sayings ..a real sign of Mastery is expending >>> exactly >>> the amount of energy, and no more than is needed accomplish the task >>> at hand. >>> >>> some readers may appreciate this relative to that ..in Judo, I've >>> heard >>> that it's boring to watch masters compete against each other ..because >>> their movements are so subtle ..not huge efforts or thrashing around >>> ........just subtle applications of exactly the right energy , and >>> no more. >>> >>> Let's talk about the Psychic Healing factor on Vanagons sometime.. >>> or repairs performed remotely purely with mental power. ( which is >>> why I >>> always want to know WHERE the frick something is ..because I am >>> already >>> thinking about what it might need. >>> and like a pshchic ...knowing the location helps a lot. >>> and ..a bitch here...I see constantly that in modern times people are >>> 'autistic' where anything to do with Location is concerned. >>> Chronically . >>> Like "how much is shipping on that part ? but I won't say to where.' >>> are people getting dumber ??? I think they are. >>> and anti-frz and water can't help mixing very easily. >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> >>>> On 12/10/2013 5:29 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote: >>>> It seems you may be trying real hard to mess this up. Since it is >>>> winter you >>>> should not be adding antifreeze and water separately. Even after >>>> you do get >>>> the engine running the water can stay separated for quite a while >>>> and the >>>> water slugs will freeze. So can the undiluted antifreeze. Yes, >>>> antifreeze >>>> needs to mix water for at least a 70-30 mix or it can become a >>>> slushy mess >>>> and keep the cooling system from working. Then if you are in an >>>> area with >>>> hard water you should not use that in your engine. Regardless of >>>> type of >>>> antifreeze hard water over time will do the most damage. The minerals >>>> precipitate out and the abrasive characteristics will eat water >>>> pump seals >>>> wear out heater cores from the inside out. >>>> >>>> When you get ready to try this again get a helper if can. You want >>>> to start >>>> the engine, hold it at 1,800 to 2,000 rpm and add coolant as the >>>> water pump >>>> sucks it down. Your helper can watch the bleeder at the radiator. >>>> There >>>> should be coolant at the bleeder in 30 seconds to a minute. Once it >>>> flows, >>>> close the bleeder, top off the tank, install the cap, and then let >>>> the >>>> engine return to idle. This should all be done before the engine >>>> warms. Any >>>> air left will self bleed unless there is a problem. >>>> >>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On >>>> Behalf Of >>>> Steve Cotsford >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:08 PM >>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>>> Subject: Re: More questions pertaining to my 88 model Bluestar >>>> project >>>> >>>> Well today I bought antifreeze and started putting it in. I was >>>> able to >>>> put in 2 quarts and about 2 quarts or water. I removed the screw >>>> from the >>>> top of the radiator and ran the engine to circulate the coolant. >>>> I was >>>> somewhat surprised that I could not put any more in and I was >>>> expecting >>>> something from the top of the radiator . The engine was running >>>> nicely. >>>> Then all of a sudden I heard a pop and antifreeze hit the ground up >>>> the >>>> front with a little water vapour so I turned every thing off. It >>>> seemed >>>> pretty clear that coolant was circulating as I could feel all the >>>> hoses had >>>> warmed up and the engine seemed pretty smooth. >>>> I looked under the front and saw coolant so I lowered the spare >>>> tire tray >>>> and got the tire out. It soon became apparent. Back in May >>>> when I >>>> installed the engine I was under the van and checked out a lot of >>>> things. >>>> In my six months of clinics and convalescing however I had not >>>> thought too >>>> much about it. I had not dropped the spare tire tray >>>> before. It >>>> turns out that both the hoses that take coolant to the radiator and >>>> back to >>>> the engine were totally missing and plastic caps had been shoved >>>> onto the >>>> pipe ends. The pop that I had heard was not the rad that had >>>> burst, but >>>> one of the caps coming off the coolant pipe. Call me naive if >>>> you want >>>> but it had not occurred to me that the hoses would be totally >>>> missing !!. >>>> I had expected eventually a hose in poor condition and my visual tour >>>> underneath had seen nothing so I thought it was safe to fill the >>>> system with >>>> coolant and antifreeze. I was seriously wrong ! Oh well. >>>> At least >>>> the rad has not burst....yet and its no wonder that nothing had >>>> come out of >>>> the top of the rad seeing that nothing had gone in the bottom. >>>> Time to >>>> get some parts on order and fully check the front end of the system >>>> and >>>> everything in that area. I saw an electrical fan behind the >>>> radiator and >>>> there is a silver nipple naked on the back of the motor. Time to >>>> study >>>> more stuff. Steve >>>> >>>>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Neil N wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Larrys roadhaus link may help (this is for shops but may provide >>>>> lead?) >>>>> >>>>> http://www.roadhaus.com/shops.php >>>>> >>>>> Can Vanagon samba members be searched by location? If so, maybe >>>>> leads >>>>> that way too? >>>>> >>>>> Neil. >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/9/13, Steve Cotsford <cotsford@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know Vanagon parts sources and gurus, here in the >>>>>> southeast? >>>>> -- >>>>> Neil n >>>>> >>>>> Blog: tubaneil.blogspot.ca >>>>> >>>>> '88 Westy http://tinyurl.com/c8rlw6p >>>>> >>>>> '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ >>>>> >>>>> Vanagon VAG *Gas* inline-VR Engine Swap Group: >>>>> >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/d7gd5ej


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