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Date:         Mon, 9 Dec 2013 16:50:27 -0800
Reply-To:     Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [OT] Efficiency of electric heaters?
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <BAY404-EAS322E45963C61DC680E81B76A0D30@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks, Dennis, for this overview!

And thanks to all for providing their thoughts on this subject. The short-form summary, for those of you keeping score, is that 1500 Watts is 1500 Watts no matter how the Watts is dissipated: into blown hot air, into infrared radiation, or into a tank of mineral oil that re-radiates the heat into the air -- they will all pump about 5,100 btu of heat into the room per hour.

BUT some respondees did report preferences: infrared heats hung overhead can be aimed at yer head or set in front to keep yer knees warm, and that feels nice; and those who use oil-filled radiators seem to like the comforting "glow" they provide.

But the Rocket J Squirrel Award For The Most Useful Bit O' Information came from Mr. Marc Perdue who wisely pointed out that "[...] it doesn't matter if you're right. She's right and that's all that matters, whether you actually are or not."

Marc is, of course, absolutely correct. Happy wife, happy life.

-- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, Bend, Ore.

On 12/09/2013 02:37 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote: > Depending where you live electric heat can be extremely expensive or > reasonable. Here on Long Island we pay close to $0.20/kwhr. However, with > oil near $4.00/gallon it may not be a bargain. One kwh of electric heat > produces ~3,412 Btu/hr. of heat. 100,000 Btu/hr. requires 29.31 kw/hr. If > you are paying $0.10/Kwh that 100,000 btu/hr. only costs $2.91. A gallon of > fuel oil is ~138k/btu. So you would need .7246 gallon to produce 100,000 > btu. Now consider that even if you were to get 85% efficiency you really > need .853 gallons. At $4.00/gallon that same heat in oil really costs $3.40. > Add the cost of the pumps, blowers, controls, equipment investment and > maintenance oil heat may not be a bargain. To compare natural gas heat look > at your bill. Likely you are looking at some cubic feet or therms number. > Both equate to about 100,00 btu. Gas is usually more efficient especially > with modern equipment so maybe use 90% as your efficiency factor. Buying a > new home you want gas heat. As for propane that gives about 96,000 > btu/gallon. Also use 90% for your efficiency and do the math from there. > > The trick of using portable electric heaters for most is the ability to keep > the whole house cooler and just heat the room(s) that need a bit extra or > only when they are occupied. As for which ones work best it does come down > to preference and intended use. > > Dennis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > Dick Wong > Sent: Monday, December 9, 2013 1:01 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: [OT] Efficiency of electric heaters? > > Yes, 1500W in an electric heater is 1500W. The units is sitting inside the > room, so all the heat that is generated, whether it is blown out with the > fan, radiated into the room, heated by an inefficient fan motor or is coming > off of the overheated power cord ;-), still contributes to the room. > If your room is drafty, poorly insulated or has a very high ceiling, the > air that is heated is short lived or floats away. The fan units primarily > heat the air. The radiant units primarily heat the objects (people). The > radiator (oil) style devices do a combination of both (and can be slow to > get going). > > You may feel warmer (or at least the one or two body parts) when you are in > front of the radiant heater, but as soon as you move away, it's gone. > Since the fan units heat the air, the whole room feels warmer, but it takes > longer to heat all of that air. A radiant heater gives you localized > heating, i.e., hot spots. > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :-) > > Stay warm in Oregon. It's cold here in the mid-section of California too. > > -Dick- > 87 Vanagon Syncro (Blaze) > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Larry Alofs <lalofs@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The electrical energy 'consumed" by the fan also ends up as heat. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Jeff Palmer <jpalmer@mymts.net> wrote: >> >>> I would say this is on topic. Lots of us use electric heaters to >>> supplement. Much cheaper than Propex :) My two cents from a guy >>> living in -30 weather: >>> Electricity is 100% efficient (or close) regardless of the fixture, >>> but >> it >>> may or may not be price competitive with less efficient heaters that >>> use different fuel. I think? >>> I prefer radiant heat - much more comfortable and stable. And >>> quiet. I would think the nasty fan on some electric heaters must >>> consume extra >> power >>> too. Love my oil filled unit. >>> Jeff >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 07:59:19 -0800 >>>> From: camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM >>>> Subject: [OT] Efficiency of electric heaters? >>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> (This is not Vanagon-related but I don't know another pool of >>>> engineers and scientists to write to, so I'm writing here for >>>> help.) >>>> >>>> It's pretty cold here in Bend, Oregon, and the house that her son >>>> is renting is colder than he'd like. It's an older house, built >>>> cheaply, and only has electric baseboard heaters -- no gas, no > fireplace. >>>> >>>> Mrs Elliott has been looking at electric heaters and asks whether >>>> some put out more heat than others. "1500 Watts is 1500 Watts, >>>> same BTUs" I >>> sez. >>>> >>>> I sez, "It doesn't matter whether the heating elements are fifteen >>>> one-hundred Watt light bulbs, or whether the heating elements are >>>> put >> in >>>> an oil bath; it doesn't matter whether they write the words `infrared' >>>> or `quartz' on the enclosure: you'll put the same heat into the room. >>>> All heaters are alike in terms of heat output. >>>> >>>> "Sure, an infrared heater can be `aimed' directly at your body, >>>> which >> is >>>> real nice; and others have blowers that can direct the heated air >>>> and stir the air to keep the colder air from pooling on the floor, >>>> but in terms of how warm the overall air in the room eventually >>>> gets, all 1500 Watt heaters are the same." >>>> >>>> That's what I sez. But she knows I'm a bit of an idiot sometimes >>>> and is tempted by expensive 1500 Watt heaters, thinking there must >>>> be a reason why they promote this quartz or that oil-filled >>>> feature. She points out that when you turn off an oil-filled >>>> heater, it still radiates heat for quite some time afterwards; I >>>> point out that the slow cooling is >> matched >>>> by slower warming. >>>> >>>> Can the engineers and scientists in the room comment on this >>>> matter? So that This Marriage Can Be Saved? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. >>>> >>>> (Probably don't want to clutter up the list with this, please >>>> email to me directly.) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott >>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, >>>> Bend, Ore. >>> >>> >>


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