Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 20:06:04 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Organization: Cosmic Reminders
Subject: Re: [OT] Efficiency of electric heaters?
In-Reply-To: <CAFnDXk3gUp86GWqRjyaAKe5GjoPpX_mSk99=2qa7VO9SrCfzgg@mail.gmail.com>
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Overall..
fossil fuel has incredible energy density ..
is easily transported in infrastructure ...
whether gasoline, diesel , or propane..
nothing quite packs the energy that these fuels have..
that it's as cheap as it is , is flat amazing.
Imagine how much of that energy is still remaining in the planet !!
Not that it's 'so good' in terms of pollution and CO 2 levels in the
atmosphere..
it's bad actually ..
and I can see why humans are so addicted to it.
Hopefully coal will decline in use. The US is addicted to it..
I forget the numbers .....some huge portion of electricity generation
come from coal ..35 % at least.
especially in the East.
I read that some huge number ...40,000 metric tons of coal or whatever
leaves Whyoming by train several times a day for the East Coast.
some obscene figure.
Same in Austraila ...hundreds of metric tons of coal are shipped out
every day by train and ship ..
to China and India.
Hopefully humans will get off this dangerous drug ..fossil fuels ...
and we'll have silent electric Vanagons.
Of course...electric vehicles are 'remote polluting' ...
whatever generates the electricity they are charged with ..
usually comes from environment damaging hydro or perhaps coal
electricity and some nuke, and very little solar and wind.
now if someone has there own huge solar array ...
massive banks of batteries .a l to charge their electric Vanagon for
driving around..
great !
That would only take some 30 to 50,000 dollars worth of PV panels and
batteries..
which do not have an infinite life. $ 20k might get things started.
Low end electric conversions to stand cars start at $ 7k ..
and that is with just ordinary lead-acid batteries..not the best type of
battery.
I would say...roughly ..that it's easy to burn through $ 50,000 setting
up a good solar system to produce electricity on your own.
or solar plus wind. It ain't cheap.
This all makes 30 bucks at the gas or diesel pump at the gas station
mighty attractive !
last line...I'm using radiant propane heat when not using a wood stove.
12 dollars worth of propane will heat or assist strongly with heating in
my space/s for 9 days maybe.
That stuff is cheap !
Very tempting to convert a gasoline vanagon to run on it.
There is a major glut of natural gas in the market place..
silly humans ..they often produce much more than they need ..'just in
case.'
Scott
On 12/9/2013 4:26 PM, Jim Felder wrote:
> Thanks to the success of fracking, there is so much natural gas available
> that the cost of it, in many parts of the country, has fallen
> precipitously. Here in Alabama, environmentalists get the blame for closing
> coal mines when it is actually the competition from natural gas, the cost
> of which is about 25 percent of what it was ten years ago. Coal doesn't
> stand a chance, especially since it can't be pipelined to its destination.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Rob <vwrobb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Some years back in Minnesota it was cheaper to run 3 milk house
>> heaters over night in the 3 bedrooms than run the central furnace
>> (propane).
>>
>> Rob
>> vwrobb@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> At 12/9/2013 04:37 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>
>>
>> The trick of using portable electric heaters for most is the ability to
>>> keep
>>> the whole house cooler and just heat the room(s) that need a bit extra or
>>> only when they are occupied. As for which ones work best it does come down
>>> to preference and intended use.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
