Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 15:28:04 -0800
Reply-To: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Van Dies while in motion
In-Reply-To: <CAJDQR3Djbr29sR7o0QgGJ2P_GjWRs-SOMOcUFjbG5-Vx4RCung@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
and this my friends is why triple a rec vehicle membership is so valuable -
places vehicle in the yard of repairs rather than at side of road -
200 mile tow three times a year -
regards
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Anthony Boscolo <abosail@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks all for the responses. I really appreciate it.
>
> I haven't had a chance to dig too deeply yet but I have figured some stuff
> out. The battery seems good.
> After pulling the cover off the steering column, I tried to disconnect the
> wiring harness from the ignition...which didn't come easily. Rather than
> pulling so hard as to break something I had a closer look. It looks like
> the wiring harness has melted a bit (the little black piece with all the
> wires is slightly deformed and appears to have melted). I didn't have much
> in the way of tools with me and I didn't feel like digging any deeper with
> out disconnecting the battery...so I pretty much stopped and began working
> on a getting a tow.
>
> That is as far as I got on the project. I will dig a bit deeper once I
> get the van back home tonight. I let yall know how it goes.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear enerwise
>>
>> As my good friend Stalaslous says -
>> Yuh I luvs dis vheel ting - but vhill vhe akcjuile goes much fastur- den
>> vhe deed on sleds ?
>> Faster den dat hoars?
>> Laughing - he concludes - den vhe past hour shelves...:)
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> On Saturday, December 21, 2013, Keith Hughes wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 20:56:20 -0800
>> > From: Stuart <ve3smf@YAHOO.COM <javascript:;>>
>>
>> > Subject: Re: Van Dies while in motion
>> >
>> > Ref:=C2=A0
>> > http://ecmweb.com/design/highs-and-lows-motor-voltage=0A=C2=A0=
>> > =0A"To drive a fixed mechanical load connected to the shaft,
>> > a motor must d=
>> > raw a fixed amount of power from the line. The amount of
>> > power the motor dr=
>> > aws has a rough correlation to the voltage 2current (amps).
>> > Thus, when volt=
>> > age gets low, the current must increase to provide the same
>> > amount of power=
>> > . "=0A=C2=A0=0A"The Highs and Lows of Motor Voltage=0AMay 1,
>> > 2000 12:00 PM,=
>> > By Ed Cowern, P.E.=0AOperating a motor at the "outer
>> > limits" of its voltag=
>> > e requirements reduces its efficiency and causes premature
>> > failure.=0AThe e=
>> > conomic loss from premature motor failure is devastating. In
>> > most cases, th=
>> > e price of the motor itself is trivial compared to the cost
>> > of unscheduled =
>> > shutdowns of processes. Both high and low voltages can cause
>> > premature moto=
>> > r failure, as will voltage imbalance. Here, we'll look at
>> > the effects of lo=
>> > w and high voltage on motors and the related performance
>> > changes you can ex=
>> > pect when you use voltages other than those noted on the
>> > nameplate.=0AEffec=
>> > ts of low voltage. When you subject a motor to voltages
>> > below the nameplate=
>> > rating, some of the motor's characteristics will change
>> > slightly and other=
>> > s will change dramatically. To drive a fixed mechanical load
>> > connected to t=
>> > he shaft, a motor must draw a fixed amount of power from the
>> > line. The amou=
>> > nt of power the motor draws has a rough correlation to the
>> > voltage 2current=
>> > (amps). Thus, when voltage gets low, the current must
>> > increase to provide =
>> > the same amount of power. An increase in current is a danger
>> > to the motor o=
>> > nly if that current exceeds the motor's nameplate current
>> > rating. When amps=
>> > go above the nameplate rating, heat begins to build up in
>> > the motor. Witho=
>> > ut a timely correction, this heat will damage the motor. The
>> > more heat and =
>> > the longer the exposure to it, the more damage to the
>> > motor."=0A=0AAnother =
>> > source from the same author...=0A=0ARef:=C2=A0
>> > http://www.motorsanddrives.c=
>> > om/cowern/motorterms12.html=0A=0A" =0ALOW VOLTAGE=0AWhen
>> > electric motors ar=
>> > e subjected to voltages, below the nameplate rating, some of
>> > the characteri=
>> > stics will change slightly and others will change more
>> > dramatically. A basi=
>> > c point is, to drive a fixed mechanical load connected to
>> > the shaft, a moto=
>> > r must draw a fixed amount of power from the power line. The
>> > amount of powe=
>> > r the motor draws is roughly related to the voltage times
>> > current (amps). T=
>> > hus, when voltage gets low, the current must get higher to
>> > provide the same=
>> > amount of power. The fact that current gets higher is not
>> > alarming unless =
>> > it exceeds the nameplate current rating of the motor. When
>> > amps go above th=
>> > e nameplate rating, it is safe to assume that the buildup of
>> > heat within th=
>> > e motor will become damaging if it is left unchecked. If a
>> > motor is lightly=
>> > loaded and the voltage drops, the current will increase in
>> > roughly the sam=
>> > e proportion that the voltage decreases.=0AFor example, a
>> > 10% voltage decre=
>> > ase would cause a 10% amperage increase. This would not be
>> > damaging if the =
>> > motor current stays below the nameplate value. However, if a
>> > motor is heavi=
>> > ly loaded and a voltage reduction occurs, the current would
>> > go up from a fa=
>> > irly high value to a new value which might be in excess of
>> > the full load ra=
>> > ted amps. This could be damaging. It can be safely said that
>> > low voltage in=
>> > itself is not a problem unless the motor amperage is pushed
>> > beyond the nam=
>> > eplate rating.=0A=C2=A0=0AAside from the possibility of
>> > over-temperature an=
>> > d shortened life created by low voltage, some other
>> > important items need to=
>> > be understood. The first is that the starting torque,
>> > pull-up torque, and =
>> > pull-out torque of induction motors, all change based on the
>> > applied voltag=
>> > e squared . Thus, a 10% reduction from nameplate voltage
>> > (100% to 90%, 230 =
>> > volts to 207 volts) would reduce the starting torque,
>> > pull-up torque, and p=
>> > ull-out torque by a factor of .9 x .9. The resulting values
>> > would be 81% of=
>> > the full voltage values. At 80% voltage, the result would
>> > be .8 x .8, or a=
>> > value of 64% of the full voltage value.=0A=C2=A0=0AIn this
>> > case, it is eas=
>> > y to see why it would be difficult to start
>> > =E2=80=9Chard-to-start=E2=80=9D=
>> > loads if the voltage happens to be low. Similarly the
>> > motor=E2=80=99s pull=
>> > -out torque would be much lower than it would be under
>> > normal voltage condi=
>> > tions.=0A=C2=A0=0ATo summarize the situation, low voltage
>> > can cause high cu=
>> > rrents and overheating which will subsequently shorten motor
>> > life. Low volt=
>> > age can also reduce the motor=E2=80=99s ability to get
>> > started and its valu=
>> > es of pull-up and pull-out torque. On lightly loaded motors
>> > with easy-to-st=
>> > art loads, reducing the voltage will not have any
>> > appreciable effect except=
>> > that it might help reduce the light load losses and improve
>> > the efficiency=
>> > under this condition. This is the principle that is used in
>> > the so-called =
>> > Nola devices that are sold as efficiency improving add-on
>> > equipment to moto=
>> > rs."=C2=A0=0ALook at the digram in the article.=C2=A0 You
>> > can see with a re=
>> > duction in voltage, you get a corresponding increase in
>> > current.=C2=A0 In t=
>> > he given case, I suspect that the battery and/or the
>> > alternator failed, wit=
>> > h a resulting=C2=A0 voltage drop.=C2=A0 With several high
>> > power devices, su=
>> > ch as fans and lights, the current demands on the wiring
>> > would have gone up=
>> > .=C2=A0 Perhaps this caused overheating of the switch and
>> > system failure.=
>> > =C2=A0 This will only be answered when the original poster
>> > tells what devic=
>> > es failed.=C2=A0 State of the battery, alternator, switch
>> > and other wirng.=
>> > =0A=0AWhat do you think happened?=C2=A0 Your
>> > thoughts......=0A=0ACheers!=0A=
>> > Stuart=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Larry
>> > Alofs <lalofs@gm=
>> > ail.com>=0ATo: Stuart <ve3smf@yahoo.com <javascript:;>>
>>
>> > =0ACc: vanagonlist a <vanagon@gerr=
>> > y.vanagon.com> =0ASent: Saturday, December 21, 2013
>> > 10:33:59 PM=0ASubject: =
>> > Re: Van Dies while in motion=0A=0A=0A=0AStuart, =0A=C2=A0
>> > I'm afraid you ar=
>> > e too far out on your limb. =C2=A0Your basic starting point
>> > that any device=
>> > will use a fixed amount of power is incorrect.=0AThat makes
>> > the rest of yo=
>> > ur argument and conclusions false.=0A=C2=A0 I am wondering
>> > where you came u=
>> > p with that premise.=0A=0ALarry A.
>> >
>> > Stuart, you are citing information for *A/C* motors. DC motors, and
>> other
>> > resistive loads do not have power factors, and operate under simple
>> Ohm's
>> > Laws. A DC motor has a fixed (abeit temperature variant to a degree)
>> > internal resistance, and when voltage drops, it will respond according
>> to
>> > the relationship E=IR. R is fixed, thus when E drops, I drops as well.
>> > Power dissipation (Volt-Amps, i.e. E*I) decreases as voltage
>> decreases. If
>> > DC power were invariant as you claim, then a headlamp bulb would glow
>> with
>> > the same luminosity at 1 VDC as at 14VDC.
>> >
>> > Keith Hughes
>> > '86 Westy Tiico (Marvin)
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> http://www.tvthatworks.com
>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com
>> Explore printed work at: http://www.prliving.ca/
>> View the growing list of video work at:
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
>> http://vimeo.com/42309497
>>
>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Anthony Boscolo | 206.794.1727 | abosail@gmail.com
>
--
roger whittaker 604.414.6266
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.tvthatworks.com
http://www.tvpowellriver.com
Explore printed work at: http://www.prliving.ca/
View the growing list of video work at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u
http://vimeo.com/42309497
http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
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