Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 08:55:07 -0800
Reply-To: Anthony Boscolo <abosail@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Anthony Boscolo <abosail@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Van Dies while in motion
In-Reply-To: <CAG0-GTz2RgFXUEK_GdPWB7HovA-MUgRMsCxuSsXRj59O_1+kog@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thanks all for the responses. I really appreciate it.
I haven't had a chance to dig too deeply yet but I have figured some stuff
out. The battery seems good.
After pulling the cover off the steering column, I tried to disconnect the
wiring harness from the ignition...which didn't come easily. Rather than
pulling so hard as to break something I had a closer look. It looks like
the wiring harness has melted a bit (the little black piece with all the
wires is slightly deformed and appears to have melted). I didn't have much
in the way of tools with me and I didn't feel like digging any deeper with
out disconnecting the battery...so I pretty much stopped and began working
on a getting a tow.
That is as far as I got on the project. I will dig a bit deeper once I get
the van back home tonight. I let yall know how it goes.
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com>wrote:
> Dear enerwise
>
> As my good friend Stalaslous says -
> Yuh I luvs dis vheel ting - but vhill vhe akcjuile goes much fastur- den
> vhe deed on sleds ?
> Faster den dat hoars?
> Laughing - he concludes - den vhe past hour shelves...:)
>
> Regards
>
> On Saturday, December 21, 2013, Keith Hughes wrote:
>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 20:56:20 -0800
> > From: Stuart <ve3smf@YAHOO.COM <javascript:;>>
> > Subject: Re: Van Dies while in motion
> >
> > Ref:=C2=A0
> > http://ecmweb.com/design/highs-and-lows-motor-voltage=0A=C2=A0=
> > =0A"To drive a fixed mechanical load connected to the shaft,
> > a motor must d=
> > raw a fixed amount of power from the line. The amount of
> > power the motor dr=
> > aws has a rough correlation to the voltage 2current (amps).
> > Thus, when volt=
> > age gets low, the current must increase to provide the same
> > amount of power=
> > . "=0A=C2=A0=0A"The Highs and Lows of Motor Voltage=0AMay 1,
> > 2000 12:00 PM,=
> > By Ed Cowern, P.E.=0AOperating a motor at the "outer
> > limits" of its voltag=
> > e requirements reduces its efficiency and causes premature
> > failure.=0AThe e=
> > conomic loss from premature motor failure is devastating. In
> > most cases, th=
> > e price of the motor itself is trivial compared to the cost
> > of unscheduled =
> > shutdowns of processes. Both high and low voltages can cause
> > premature moto=
> > r failure, as will voltage imbalance. Here, we'll look at
> > the effects of lo=
> > w and high voltage on motors and the related performance
> > changes you can ex=
> > pect when you use voltages other than those noted on the
> > nameplate.=0AEffec=
> > ts of low voltage. When you subject a motor to voltages
> > below the nameplate=
> > rating, some of the motor's characteristics will change
> > slightly and other=
> > s will change dramatically. To drive a fixed mechanical load
> > connected to t=
> > he shaft, a motor must draw a fixed amount of power from the
> > line. The amou=
> > nt of power the motor draws has a rough correlation to the
> > voltage 2current=
> > (amps). Thus, when voltage gets low, the current must
> > increase to provide =
> > the same amount of power. An increase in current is a danger
> > to the motor o=
> > nly if that current exceeds the motor's nameplate current
> > rating. When amps=
> > go above the nameplate rating, heat begins to build up in
> > the motor. Witho=
> > ut a timely correction, this heat will damage the motor. The
> > more heat and =
> > the longer the exposure to it, the more damage to the
> > motor."=0A=0AAnother =
> > source from the same author...=0A=0ARef:=C2=A0
> > http://www.motorsanddrives.c=
> > om/cowern/motorterms12.html=0A=0A" =0ALOW VOLTAGE=0AWhen
> > electric motors ar=
> > e subjected to voltages, below the nameplate rating, some of
> > the characteri=
> > stics will change slightly and others will change more
> > dramatically. A basi=
> > c point is, to drive a fixed mechanical load connected to
> > the shaft, a moto=
> > r must draw a fixed amount of power from the power line. The
> > amount of powe=
> > r the motor draws is roughly related to the voltage times
> > current (amps). T=
> > hus, when voltage gets low, the current must get higher to
> > provide the same=
> > amount of power. The fact that current gets higher is not
> > alarming unless =
> > it exceeds the nameplate current rating of the motor. When
> > amps go above th=
> > e nameplate rating, it is safe to assume that the buildup of
> > heat within th=
> > e motor will become damaging if it is left unchecked. If a
> > motor is lightly=
> > loaded and the voltage drops, the current will increase in
> > roughly the sam=
> > e proportion that the voltage decreases.=0AFor example, a
> > 10% voltage decre=
> > ase would cause a 10% amperage increase. This would not be
> > damaging if the =
> > motor current stays below the nameplate value. However, if a
> > motor is heavi=
> > ly loaded and a voltage reduction occurs, the current would
> > go up from a fa=
> > irly high value to a new value which might be in excess of
> > the full load ra=
> > ted amps. This could be damaging. It can be safely said that
> > low voltage in=
> > itself is not a problem unless the motor amperage is pushed
> > beyond the nam=
> > eplate rating.=0A=C2=A0=0AAside from the possibility of
> > over-temperature an=
> > d shortened life created by low voltage, some other
> > important items need to=
> > be understood. The first is that the starting torque,
> > pull-up torque, and =
> > pull-out torque of induction motors, all change based on the
> > applied voltag=
> > e squared . Thus, a 10% reduction from nameplate voltage
> > (100% to 90%, 230 =
> > volts to 207 volts) would reduce the starting torque,
> > pull-up torque, and p=
> > ull-out torque by a factor of .9 x .9. The resulting values
> > would be 81% of=
> > the full voltage values. At 80% voltage, the result would
> > be .8 x .8, or a=
> > value of 64% of the full voltage value.=0A=C2=A0=0AIn this
> > case, it is eas=
> > y to see why it would be difficult to start
> > =E2=80=9Chard-to-start=E2=80=9D=
> > loads if the voltage happens to be low. Similarly the
> > motor=E2=80=99s pull=
> > -out torque would be much lower than it would be under
> > normal voltage condi=
> > tions.=0A=C2=A0=0ATo summarize the situation, low voltage
> > can cause high cu=
> > rrents and overheating which will subsequently shorten motor
> > life. Low volt=
> > age can also reduce the motor=E2=80=99s ability to get
> > started and its valu=
> > es of pull-up and pull-out torque. On lightly loaded motors
> > with easy-to-st=
> > art loads, reducing the voltage will not have any
> > appreciable effect except=
> > that it might help reduce the light load losses and improve
> > the efficiency=
> > under this condition. This is the principle that is used in
> > the so-called =
> > Nola devices that are sold as efficiency improving add-on
> > equipment to moto=
> > rs."=C2=A0=0ALook at the digram in the article.=C2=A0 You
> > can see with a re=
> > duction in voltage, you get a corresponding increase in
> > current.=C2=A0 In t=
> > he given case, I suspect that the battery and/or the
> > alternator failed, wit=
> > h a resulting=C2=A0 voltage drop.=C2=A0 With several high
> > power devices, su=
> > ch as fans and lights, the current demands on the wiring
> > would have gone up=
> > .=C2=A0 Perhaps this caused overheating of the switch and
> > system failure.=
> > =C2=A0 This will only be answered when the original poster
> > tells what devic=
> > es failed.=C2=A0 State of the battery, alternator, switch
> > and other wirng.=
> > =0A=0AWhat do you think happened?=C2=A0 Your
> > thoughts......=0A=0ACheers!=0A=
> > Stuart=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Larry
> > Alofs <lalofs@gm=
> > ail.com>=0ATo: Stuart <ve3smf@yahoo.com <javascript:;>>
> > =0ACc: vanagonlist a <vanagon@gerr=
> > y.vanagon.com> =0ASent: Saturday, December 21, 2013
> > 10:33:59 PM=0ASubject: =
> > Re: Van Dies while in motion=0A=0A=0A=0AStuart, =0A=C2=A0
> > I'm afraid you ar=
> > e too far out on your limb. =C2=A0Your basic starting point
> > that any device=
> > will use a fixed amount of power is incorrect.=0AThat makes
> > the rest of yo=
> > ur argument and conclusions false.=0A=C2=A0 I am wondering
> > where you came u=
> > p with that premise.=0A=0ALarry A.
> >
> > Stuart, you are citing information for *A/C* motors. DC motors, and
> other
> > resistive loads do not have power factors, and operate under simple Ohm's
> > Laws. A DC motor has a fixed (abeit temperature variant to a degree)
> > internal resistance, and when voltage drops, it will respond according to
> > the relationship E=IR. R is fixed, thus when E drops, I drops as well.
> > Power dissipation (Volt-Amps, i.e. E*I) decreases as voltage decreases.
> If
> > DC power were invariant as you claim, then a headlamp bulb would glow
> with
> > the same luminosity at 1 VDC as at 14VDC.
> >
> > Keith Hughes
> > '86 Westy Tiico (Marvin)
> >
>
>
> --
> roger whittaker 604.414.6266
>
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--
Anthony Boscolo | 206.794.1727 | abosail@gmail.com
|