Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:00:46 -0500
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Do waterboxers have core plugs (freeze plugs)?
In-Reply-To: <BA9CA619-1C8B-4FD3-9631-16590B61CB63@gmail.com>
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First off Merry Christmas to everyone. I have been traveling the last few
days so I was responding to e-mails. Currently I am in nice warm Coral
Springs Florida sitting poolside in 70F weather.
Following this tread for engine heaters I'll offer the following.
The real problem with the bolt on pan heaters with the water boxer is the
lack of a flat bottom for heat transfer. For most engines the pan heaters
are magnetic or even epoxied into place to maximize the surface area. There
are some "stick" type heaters that can be installed into the oil sump. This
will require drilling and threading the case somewhere. Best done during an
overhaul.
Coolant heaters can also be used. The trick is to get the coolant circulated
through just the engine. The goal is not to heat the radiator.
In reality the water boxer has the coolant and oil separated so you need to
consider heating both. The oil so it can lubricate and the coolant to help
it start.
The 2.1L with the oil to coolant heat exchanger really helps in this regard.
As soon as the engine starts some heat will transfer the coolant right away
and that exchanger will help the oil warm up just before the filter and
bearings.
For the waterboxer, there really should be no problem starting it until
temps get say -20F or so. This is where synthetics il really strut their
stuff as they don't thicken to the point of solidification as conventional
oil will do.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Vanagon
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 11:32 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Do waterboxers have core plugs (freeze plugs)?
So your experience is that the bolt-on pan heaters like the 250w pyroil
mentioned below do work but not very effectively?
Sent from my 1963 maroon and cream 702B Western Electric Princess phone.
> On Dec 24, 2013, at 11:58 AM, JRodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Preheating both oil and engine is a big issue in really cold climes.
> When I lived in Fairbanks, I installed a block heater that screwed
> right into a freeze-plug location. Other folks used a tank heater -
> and add-on that when operating did so on the thermo-siphoning
> principle, circulating hot coolant through the engine block and back
> to the tank to be re-heated. In both cases there was enough heat
> transfer to keep the oil in the oil pan warm - at least warm enough -
> for easy starts in the cold - at times 50F below Zero.
>
> On my '68 Loaf I installed a pan heater that bolted right to the
> engine block where the oil screen/drain plug was located. It worked
> most days - but was not very efficient. Still had to go through a
> considerable warm up, but it did start easier.
>
> When I bought my first Vanagon - and '85 GL - down on the Kenai
> Peninsula - I put one of the pan heaters, just because I happened to
> have a spare for the '68 Loaf. it worked, but not very well.
>
> One big factor in the cold is keeping the battery warm. On ALL my
> vehicles in Alaska - I installed battery hot-plates to keep the
> battery warm. Made a huge difference.
>
> I saw a couple of air-cooled folks put catalytic heaters UNDER the
> engine and on the ground 'neath the car. I guess the rising heat
> transferred sufficiently to keep the oil warm.
>
> In my early days of flying up there - with radial engine airplanes -
> which always had separate oil tanks - upon landing and while the
> engine was still very warm - a tailored insulated engine cover would
> be wrapped around the engine. That worked good enough for a few hours.
> But more than that - or for over night - the oil was drained into a 5
> gallon bucket and taken in for the night and sat near the stove. The
> engine was left wrapped up for the night, and a catalytic heater was
> lit off and placed inside the engine cowling. Next morning the hot oil
> was poured back into the engine, and shortly because everything was
> warm - start up, warmup, and takeoff came quickly!
>
> I have seen it so cold, and engine oil so stiff that I could do
> chin-ups on propellers stored horizontally. We are talking 50 WT oil
> and -35F or below.
>
> I once watch a hot-shot-pilot-owner type pre-heat a dead colad engine
> at -35 with a forced air heater. When warm enough to start - he did,
> let it tun a few minutes, shut it off, wrapped a blanket around the
> cowling
> - and waited 15 minute. Removed the blanket, started up, took off.
> Engine seize at 300 ft altitude off the end of the runway. He tried to
> tun back to the runway, but was so low and slow he couldn't complete
> the turn. He stalled the airplane, and it crashed on the end of the
> runway, the left wing, cockpit and cowling hitting about the same
> time, then flipping over - effectively demolishing the airplane. He
> broke his nose
> - and his wallet. Not enough insurance. FAA investigators concluded
> that engine oil was not sufficiently fluid in the oil pan and a cold
> oil lump still existed in the sump. Upon application of full take-off
> power - the engine oil pump[ did it's best, and sucked up all liquid
> oil, leaving the lump in the bottom which could not be used.
> Consequently the engine effectively ran dry of oil and the engine seized.
>
> I will say this - when temps reach -30 to -35 - most good operators
> that I knew would halt flying the small aircraft. Colder than that was
> risking both people and airplanes. The twin-engine operations with
> bigger airplanes and engines and auxiliary gas heaters kept flying.
>
> But - the point is - in really cold weather - keep those engines and
> oil warm!
>
> John
>
>> On 12/23/2013 12:16 PM, Ian Allan wrote:
>> In Canada NAPA has an oil pan heater obviously made for the WBX as it
bolts on perfectly to existing fastener locations. Manufactured by Pyroil
NAPA part number 6051500. It is a 250 watt heater with a 36" cord. Uses two
existing fasteners.
>>
>> http://partimages2.genpt.com/partimages/255470.jpg
>>
>> Works very well.
>>
>>
>> Ian Allan
>>
>> 85 Westfalia/Bostig
>> 84 Westfalia
>> 02 Jetta 1.8t
>>
>> 2008 Sprinter
>>
>>
>>
