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Date:         Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:08:47 -0800
Reply-To:     Keith Hughes <keithahughes@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Keith Hughes <keithahughes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Van Dies while in motion
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

------------------------------ Date:    Sat, 21 Dec 2013 20:56:20 -0800 From:    Stuart <ve3smf@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: Van Dies while in motion Ref:=C2=A0 http://ecmweb.com/design/highs-and-lows-motor-voltage=0A=C2=A0= =0A"To drive a fixed mechanical load connected to the shaft, a motor must d= raw a fixed amount of power from the line. The amount of power the motor dr= aws has a rough correlation to the voltage 2current (amps). Thus, when volt= age gets low, the current must increase to provide the same amount of power= . "=0A=C2=A0=0A"The Highs and Lows of Motor Voltage=0AMay 1, 2000 12:00 PM,= By Ed Cowern, P.E.=0AOperating a motor at the "outer limits" of its voltag= e requirements reduces its efficiency and causes premature failure.=0AThe e= conomic loss from premature motor failure is devastating. In most cases, th= e price of the motor itself is trivial compared to the cost of unscheduled = shutdowns of processes. Both high and low voltages can cause premature moto= r failure, as will voltage imbalance. Here, we'll look at the effects of lo= w and high voltage on motors and the related performance changes you can ex= pect when you use voltages other than those noted on the nameplate.=0AEffec= ts of low voltage. When you subject a motor to voltages below the nameplate= rating, some of the motor's characteristics will change slightly and other= s will change dramatically. To drive a fixed mechanical load connected to t= he shaft, a motor must draw a fixed amount of power from the line. The amou= nt of power the motor draws has a rough correlation to the voltage 2current= (amps). Thus, when voltage gets low, the current must increase to provide = the same amount of power. An increase in current is a danger to the motor o= nly if that current exceeds the motor's nameplate current rating. When amps= go above the nameplate rating, heat begins to build up in the motor. Witho= ut a timely correction, this heat will damage the motor. The more heat and = the longer the exposure to it, the more damage to the motor."=0A=0AAnother = source from the same author...=0A=0ARef:=C2=A0 http://www.motorsanddrives.c= om/cowern/motorterms12.html=0A=0A" =0ALOW VOLTAGE=0AWhen electric motors ar= e subjected to voltages, below the nameplate rating, some of the characteri= stics will change slightly and others will change more dramatically. A basi= c point is, to drive a fixed mechanical load connected to the shaft, a moto= r must draw a fixed amount of power from the power line. The amount of powe= r the motor draws is roughly related to the voltage times current (amps). T= hus, when voltage gets low, the current must get higher to provide the same= amount of power. The fact that current gets higher is not alarming unless = it exceeds the nameplate current rating of the motor. When amps go above th= e nameplate rating, it is safe to assume that the buildup of heat within th= e motor will become damaging if it is left unchecked. If a motor is lightly= loaded and the voltage drops, the current will increase in roughly the sam= e proportion that the voltage decreases.=0AFor example, a 10% voltage decre= ase would cause a 10% amperage increase. This would not be damaging if the = motor current stays below the nameplate value. However, if a motor is heavi= ly loaded and a voltage reduction occurs, the current would go up from a fa= irly high value to a new value which might be in excess of the full load ra= ted amps. This could be damaging. It can be safely said that low voltage in= itself is not a problem unless the motor amperage is pushed beyond the nam= eplate rating.=0A=C2=A0=0AAside from the possibility of over-temperature an= d shortened life created by low voltage, some other important items need to= be understood. The first is that the starting torque, pull-up torque, and = pull-out torque of induction motors, all change based on the applied voltag= e squared . Thus, a 10% reduction from nameplate voltage (100% to 90%, 230 = volts to 207 volts) would reduce the starting torque, pull-up torque, and p= ull-out torque by a factor of .9 x .9. The resulting values would be 81% of= the full voltage values. At 80% voltage, the result would be .8 x .8, or a= value of 64% of the full voltage value.=0A=C2=A0=0AIn this case, it is eas= y to see why it would be difficult to start =E2=80=9Chard-to-start=E2=80=9D= loads if the voltage happens to be low. Similarly the motor=E2=80=99s pull= -out torque would be much lower than it would be under normal voltage condi= tions.=0A=C2=A0=0ATo summarize the situation, low voltage can cause high cu= rrents and overheating which will subsequently shorten motor life. Low volt= age can also reduce the motor=E2=80=99s ability to get started and its valu= es of pull-up and pull-out torque. On lightly loaded motors with easy-to-st= art loads, reducing the voltage will not have any appreciable effect except= that it might help reduce the light load losses and improve the efficiency= under this condition. This is the principle that is used in the so-called = Nola devices that are sold as efficiency improving add-on equipment to moto= rs."=C2=A0=0ALook at the digram in the article.=C2=A0 You can see with a re= duction in voltage, you get a corresponding increase in current.=C2=A0 In t= he given case, I suspect that the battery and/or the alternator failed, wit= h a resulting=C2=A0 voltage drop.=C2=A0 With several high power devices, su= ch as fans and lights, the current demands on the wiring would have gone up= .=C2=A0 Perhaps this caused overheating of the switch and system failure.= =C2=A0 This will only be answered when the original poster tells what devic= es failed.=C2=A0 State of the battery, alternator, switch and other wirng.= =0A=0AWhat do you think happened?=C2=A0 Your thoughts......=0A=0ACheers!=0A= Stuart=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Larry Alofs <lalofs@gm= ail.com>=0ATo: Stuart <ve3smf@yahoo.com> =0ACc: vanagonlist a <vanagon@gerr= y.vanagon.com> =0ASent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 10:33:59 PM=0ASubject: = Re: Van Dies while in motion=0A=0A=0A=0AStuart, =0A=C2=A0 I'm afraid you ar= e too far out on your limb. =C2=A0Your basic starting point that any device= will use a fixed amount of power is incorrect.=0AThat makes the rest of yo= ur argument and conclusions false.=0A=C2=A0 I am wondering where you came u= p with that premise.=0A=0ALarry A.

Stuart, you are citing information for *A/C* motors. DC motors, and other resistive loads do not have power factors, and operate under simple Ohm's Laws. A DC motor has a fixed (abeit temperature variant to a degree) internal resistance, and when voltage drops, it will respond according to the relationship E=IR. R is fixed, thus when E drops, I drops as well. Power dissipation (Volt-Amps, i.e. E*I) decreases as voltage decreases. If DC power were invariant as you claim, then a headlamp bulb would glow with the same luminosity at 1 VDC as at 14VDC.

Keith Hughes '86 Westy Tiico (Marvin)


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