Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 12:05:33 -0800
Reply-To: "SDF ( Scott Daniel Foss )" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "SDF ( Scott Daniel Foss )" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Organization: Cosmic Reminders
Subject: Re: Exhaust Bushing Inner Weave Premature Failure
In-Reply-To: <CAB2RwfhcRg=14M6v7d9A9jze5CE6-PCyZ6r=8bR6p6A=-6VyAA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
re the muffler mounting system on a 1.9 wbxr engine...
it's a pure joke.
It totally looks like VW had the whole engine figured out ..
started hanging on the exhaust system and when they got the muffler
mounted to the pipe ..THEN ..they thought ..
hmmmm.
how can we get some support bracket on here ?
What they came up with there is a pure afterthought and quite mickey
mouse. I have repaired many dozens of them.
the 2.1 wbxr though..a complete and proper re-do. Totally solid.
I don't even think the left side added support rods on a 1.9 wbxr even
help ..
I don't like that one by the oil filter there anyway ....never a problem
leaving those off.
I almost wonder if those contribute to exhaust problems.
note there are no extra support rods on the left side for a 2.1 wbxr,
except that short one on the left front cylinder..and since it goes
exhasut-to-exhaust, you never have to touch that one anyway.
About the I4 diesel set up ...
for turbo diesel conversions mounted ala stock Diesel Vanagon ( which I
strongly recommend ..doing it the way VW did ..engine tilted to the left
at 50 degrees )
all I have ever done is reproduce the stock DV system *exactly* ..
just in bigger pipes and with a glass pack, and I can't think of a case
where that did not last just 'forever' ..
and ..
one would think an inline 4 gas would have less vibration than an inline
4 diesel.
I've never even put a flex section in any exhaust system , just never
needed to.
and sure ..on the TD exhaust systems I have built you can yank on the
tail pipe all you want..
and it'll move the engine on the rubber mounts a little, as you'd expect.
I build mine out of already built-in-a-curve aftermarket 'over-axle'
pipes ....I just build 'em up in place on the van..
finish weld them off the van ..
or have my welder/fabricator guy do that part ..never a problem.
in my world, all pipe to muffler and pipe-to-cat junctions are bolted
flanges, per stock arrangement and never welded ...the junctions likely
allow expansion and slight movement, further reducing tendencies to crack.
Readers may recall one of my engine conversion mottos ..
"Do what the manufacturers do."
When they've been doing something the same way for decades ..you know it
works.
Why reinvent the wheel, aye ?
On 2/9/2014 10:50 AM, Neil N wrote:
>> On the 2.1 when the exhaust is properly mounted you can lift the engine from
>> the tailpipe without damaging anything. Can you do that with your set up?
> Yes, probably, but I see your point.
>
> The real "killer" in my exhaust attempts was the cat. w/o a cat, I
> could've designed the exhaust like the diesel Vanagon. (two supports
> to muffler as I have now) To further show how a poorly supported
> exhaust will fail, here's images of undersized poorly designed
> brackets in V 1.0 These are now "painful" or me to look at:
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/tubaneil2/BrokenExhaustBracket1.jpg
> https://sites.google.com/site/tubaneil2/BrokenExhaustBracket3.jpg
>
> They died in less than 1000 KM's. A hard way to learn!
>
> Did the Diesel Vanagon exhaust use isolators merely to limit transfer
> of muffler noise? I imagine not, as engine noise-vibration is
> somewhat arrested at the engine and transmission mounts, but have to
> ask.
>
>
> Neil.
>
> On 2/9/14, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On the 2.1 when the exhaust is properly mounted you can lift the engine from
>> the tailpipe without damaging anything. Can you do that with your set up?
>> Even the 1.9 was prone to problems with all those tube brackets.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>> Neil N
>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 2:57 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Exhaust Bushing Inner Weave Premature Failure
>>
>> Thanks for your suggestion Dennis. But if an exhaust is "hard mounted"
>> to a 4 cylinder inline gas engine, is there a greater risk of transmitting
>> more engine vibration to exhaust thus causing a part(s) in exhaust to crack?
>
>> I've built at least 4 different versions of exhaust.
>
> --
> Neil n
>
> Blog: tubaneil.blogspot.ca
>
> '88 Westy http://tinyurl.com/c8rlw6p
>
> '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>
> Vanagon VAG *Gas* inline-VR Engine Swap Group:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/d7gd5ej
>