Date:         Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:10:30 -0500
Reply-To:     Steve Cotsford <cotsford@AOL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Steve Cotsford <cotsford@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Fwd: Starting system quirk - diagnosis help needed
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> David, I have had a problem very similar to this. Not with a Vanagon but with other vehicles which use a Bosch starter.   I will explain but I am not trying to suggest that this is your problem but it is possible nevertheless.
> I have a Land Rover Discovery with a 4 cylinder Land Rover diesel engine and it has a very similar starter.     I turn the switch to the start position and invariably I have to wait 1 or 2  seconds before it will engage and start.    I have taken the starter apart and found that the solenoid piston was somewhat sticky in its bore so I cleaned it up and greased it very lightly.   Upon assembling it it was much quicker, even instantaneous.   Unfortunately the problem returned a month or two later and I have not repeated the cleaning but I intend to.     
> Years ago I had a 6 volt Beetle and the only way I could get the starter to work reliably was to add a relay into the solenoid activation circuit.    The starter switch activated the relay coil which needed very little current at 6 volts and the relay contacts switched a direct cable from the battery to the starter solenoid.  The slightly stronger voltage going to the solenoid was enough to make it work every time.
> 
> What I am suggesting is that your starter solenoid is becoming perhaps a little troublesome and could be replaced or cleaned.      It could be the starter switch which with age has started to dislike passing the amount of current necessary to activate the starter reliably.      Just a thought.
> 
> Steve
> 
> On Feb 15, 2014, at 4:20 PM, David <okdavid5555@COX.NET> wrote:
> 
>> Hello Vanagon listers.  I've been a list member for quite a while, but have
>> contributed infrequently, only when I think I might be able to actually add
>> something worthwhile to a discussion. I've never asked a question about my
>> own Vanagon, but now I'd appreciate some help.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I've got a stock '91 Carat, automatic trans, with 145K miles (60K put on by
>> me). I've experienced this issue a number of times over the past six months
>> or so, and it was never a problem until about a month ago when I thought it
>> was going to strand me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Here's the symptom: When turning the ignition key to the "start" position,
>> every once in a while, there is a very brief period of nothing happening,
>> ranging from a split-second to maybe a half-second. Continuing to hold the
>> key in the start position, the starter kicks in and the engine starts as
>> normal.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I emphasize that this happens infrequently, and when it does, the period of
>> time before the starter kicks in is usually almost imperceptible, but it's
>> enough of a delay that you're aware of it happening. There does not appear
>> to be a correlation between outside air temp or whether the engine is warm
>> or cold.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> About a month ago, when I was 100 miles from home, I turned the key to the
>> start position and nothing happened. Nothing. The usual dash warning lights
>> lit up when the switch passed through the "run" position, and when in the
>> start position, nothing happened. There was no dimming of the warning
>> lights; no sound (like a click, for instance) at all. No indication that a
>> load was being placed on the electrical system. The no-sound and
>> no-light-dimming seemed very odd to me. I repeated the
>> turn-off-try-to-start-again sequence several times, which yielded no change.
>> Then I got the idea that maybe the neutral safety switch was the problem, so
>> I moved the gear selector from "P" to "N" and tried again - several times -
>> with the same result. I even rapidly moved the gear selector back and forth
>> from "P" to "1" several times, thinking I would "clear" or shake loose (?)
>> the contact mechanism. This resulted in no change when trying to start in
>> either "P" and "N."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Frustrated, I got out of the van and walked around it in dismay. I even
>> looked on the ground under the engine - as if I'd find some part had dropped
>> on the ground or was hanging loose (isn't looking at and underneath the
>> engine what we're "supposed to do" when something's wrong? J  )
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> After about 10 minutes of being thoroughly upset and confused, I crawled
>> back in the driver's seat figuring I was going to have to call a wrecker. I
>> decided to give it one last try before grabbing the cell phone, and to my
>> amazement, it started right up, without any perceived delay.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It has started perfectly since then, however, the infrequent, very brief
>> delay episodes have continued.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would appreciate any advice on diagnosing where the problem may lay.
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> David S.
>> 
>> Oklahoma City
>