Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:54:36 -0500
Reply-To: "kenneth wilford (Van-Again)" <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "kenneth wilford (Van-Again)" <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Changing the Black O Ring On a Cylnder Sleeve...
In-Reply-To: <581848041.155207.1392986186282.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
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Been doing these for 15 years. Hundreds of vans at this point. Never
changed the black o-ring when doing a head gasket job. Never had a
problem. I have had long term customers so I know it didn't fail even
years later. The green o-ring is sitting in coolant and the corrosion that
is going on at the top of the cylinder. The lower one is sitting in oil
and helping seal that side of things. The only thing I can think is that
the oil bath is keeping the o-ring nice and happy, while the coolant bath
is killing it/trapping it inside a crusty shell of corrosion. Or that the
bottom of the cylinder pushing against the case is really the seal and the
o-ring is just there because an engineer thought it was a good idea. I
mean are the top green ones actually doing anything? They are so hard,
crusty, and crushed into the same plane as the groove it is hard to imagine
that they are. I think the metal head gasket is sealing the top of the
cylinder and the cylinder pressing against the case is sealing the lower
part. But that is just my opinion and I don't have any proof.
If I were going to pull the pistons and re-ring the engine every time I did
a head gasket repair, I would also be splitting the case and doing a full
on rebuild. The rings and pistons are the biggest pain in the butt part of
that anyway.
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:36 AM, J Stewart <fonman4277@comcast.net> wrote:
> Dennis, What you say makes perfect sense, in fact last night I carefully
> dug the green O ring out of the top of each sleeve, they were very hard and
> came out in little chunks. The (perhaps) misleading thing is there is a
> video at Ben's Place showing him installing the black O rings on sleeves
> that are already on the pistons and on the engine, but the engine is out of
> the van and on a stand and turned sideways. My best guess, without asking
> him, is that he forgot to put them on and had already removed the old ones.
> Because, from what I saw last night, there is NO WAY one could slide the
> sleeve out far enough to remove the old O ring (which will no doubt will be
> as brittle as the green ones) A couple of people have told me they don't
> change the the black O ring and haven't had a problem, but I'm sure it is a
> roll of the dice not to do it. Now, the sleeve on #1 is firmly stuck and
> won't budge, #2 stuck to the head and was pulled away about 3/4 of inch
> before I was able to separate it. I wouldn't be so concerned if both
> sleeves were stuck like # 1 is. I had not planned to get as involved in
> this, pulling the sleeves, etc, and perhaps even pulling the engine-but
> I've had many projects over the years (especially on VW's) that ended up
> being a lot more involved than I originally planned on! I have limited time
> to work on it each week, and hoped to have it done by time Everybus rolls
> around in April. Jeff Stewart ----- Original Message -----
> > The cylinder base o-ring is at least as old as the head gasket that
> > failed causing you to go there in the first place. If no sign of ever
> > been overheated and you feel lucky leave them in place. Otherwise,
> > pull the pistons so you can also check the rings, The pistons should
> > really be placed back into the cylinders from the top which means you
> > need to address the carbon ring. If you don't replace the rings have
> > the oil tested after about 1,000 miles to make sure no antifreeze is
> > getting by.
> > Dennis
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > Behalf Of J Stewart
> > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:05 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Changing the Black O Ring On a Cylnder Sleeve...
> > I'm guessing impossible without pulling the sleeve all the off the
> > piston. I tried it on my spare engine, on #2 (#1 sleeve is already
> > off) and by the time I pulled the sleeve out far enough the lowest
> > ring had popped out. I tried this before doing on my engine that is
> > still in the van with the right head off. I've heard differing
> > opinions about the need to replace that O ring. Thoughts? Personal
> > experiences? I'd love to hear them! Thanks!!
> > Jeff Stewart
>
--
Thanks,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
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