Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:17:26 -0500
Reply-To: Craig Cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Craig Cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting system quirk - diagnosis help needed
In-Reply-To: <CANY=VZZc9nz4k7JKC1g_UTxdEFJawtSMfN5PekMff8YYyJ9s5g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The 2 carats and one 7 passenger GL I've seen do it did not have
fridges.....
-Craig
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Miguel Pacheco <mundopacheco@gmail.com>wrote:
> Craig, I believe that starter no-disengage issue was on vans equipped with
> the refrigerator relay under the driver's seat. I believe it was Dennis
> Haynes or Mark Drillock who schooled me on the solution, although this
> happened to my manual transmission van. It was as simple as moving a ground
> on that relay, although I forget the details. It did solve that issue
> though.
> Good call on the grounds. A bad transmission to chassis ground will
> definitely prevent the starter from engaging.
> As far as that automatic transmission neutral safety switch, I need to
> check that out. I have an auto, but have never had any trouble with it.
>
> Miguel
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:51 AM, Craig Cowan <phishman068@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> A few things I have learned from having exactly the same problem on a few
>> late model automatic vans....
>> It's probably your grounds! Clean the ground at the batter terminal and
>> where the ground strap attaches to the body, and add a new thick ground
>> strap from the starter nut to the frame.
>> Check and clean your neutral safety switch, in an automatic all the power
>> strangely has to go through a little switch in the shift column known to
>> fail.
>> Lastly, a hard start relay kit is a good move, unless you have a 90/91
>> model automatic van with cruise control. For whatever reason those, you
>> can't install a relay kit in ( it won't disengage the starter, last I heard
>> jay brown was looking into it but still hadn't figured it out).
>>
>> I do not proactively replace ignition switches, as I find the bulk of
>> those available today to have a very high failure rate.
>>
>> -craig
>>
>> > On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Larry Alofs <lalofs@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> >
>> > It takes significant current to activate the starter solenoid,
>> especially
>> > as it ages. This is rough on the contacts in the ignition switch.
>> > Replacing the switch and cleaning or replacing the starter and/or
>> solenoid
>> > may solve the problem. Regardless, the system is under-engineered and
>> > failure prone. Many more modern vehicles (including Eurovans from VW)
>> use
>> > a relay between the switch and the solenoid.
>> > Some of our on-line vendors sell a "hard start relay" kit to address
>> this
>> > problem on Vanagons.
>> >
>> > Larry A.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David <okdavid5555@cox.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Thank you, list members, for all the advice about my quirky starter.
>> Looks
>> >> like replacing the ignition switch is my first priority, and then maybe
>> >> repair or replace the starter. I appreciate all the suggestions and
>> help
>> >> very much!
>> >>
>> >> David S.
>> >> Oklahoma City
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf Of
>> >> David
>> >> Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 3:20 PM
>> >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> >> Subject: Starting system quirk - diagnosis help needed
>> >>
>> >> Hello Vanagon listers. I've been a list member for quite a while, but
>> have
>> >> contributed infrequently, only when I think I might be able to
>> actually add
>> >> something worthwhile to a discussion. I've never asked a question
>> about my
>> >> own Vanagon, but now I'd appreciate some help.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I've got a stock '91 Carat, automatic trans, with 145K miles (60K put
>> on by
>> >> me). I've experienced this issue a number of times over the past six
>> months
>> >> or so, and it was never a problem until about a month ago when I
>> thought it
>> >> was going to strand me.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Here's the symptom: When turning the ignition key to the "start"
>> position,
>> >> every once in a while, there is a very brief period of nothing
>> happening,
>> >> ranging from a split-second to maybe a half-second. Continuing to hold
>> the
>> >> key in the start position, the starter kicks in and the engine starts
>> as
>> >> normal.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I emphasize that this happens infrequently, and when it does, the
>> period of
>> >> time before the starter kicks in is usually almost imperceptible, but
>> it's
>> >> enough of a delay that you're aware of it happening. There does not
>> appear
>> >> to be a correlation between outside air temp or whether the engine is
>> warm
>> >> or cold.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> About a month ago, when I was 100 miles from home, I turned the key to
>> the
>> >> start position and nothing happened. Nothing. The usual dash warning
>> lights
>> >> lit up when the switch passed through the "run" position, and when in
>> the
>> >> start position, nothing happened. There was no dimming of the warning
>> >> lights; no sound (like a click, for instance) at all. No indication
>> that a
>> >> load was being placed on the electrical system. The no-sound and
>> >> no-light-dimming seemed very odd to me. I repeated the
>> >> turn-off-try-to-start-again sequence several times, which yielded no
>> >> change.
>> >> Then I got the idea that maybe the neutral safety switch was the
>> problem,
>> >> so
>> >> I moved the gear selector from "P" to "N" and tried again - several
>> times -
>> >> with the same result. I even rapidly moved the gear selector back and
>> forth
>> >> from "P" to "1" several times, thinking I would "clear" or shake loose
>> (?)
>> >> the contact mechanism. This resulted in no change when trying to start
>> in
>> >> either "P" and "N."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Frustrated, I got out of the van and walked around it in dismay. I even
>> >> looked on the ground under the engine - as if I'd find some part had
>> >> dropped
>> >> on the ground or was hanging loose (isn't looking at and underneath the
>> >> engine what we're "supposed to do" when something's wrong? J )
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> After about 10 minutes of being thoroughly upset and confused, I
>> crawled
>> >> back in the driver's seat figuring I was going to have to call a
>> wrecker. I
>> >> decided to give it one last try before grabbing the cell phone, and to
>> my
>> >> amazement, it started right up, without any perceived delay.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It has started perfectly since then, however, the infrequent, very
>> brief
>> >> delay episodes have continued.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I would appreciate any advice on diagnosing where the problem may lay.
>> >> Thank you.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> David S.
>> >>
>> >> Oklahoma City
>> >>
>>
>
>
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