Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 13:52:22 -0500
Reply-To: "kenneth wilford (Van-Again)" <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "kenneth wilford (Van-Again)" <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Changing the Black O Ring On a Cylinder Sleeve...
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-DS3DBA19548278EA89397C7A0840@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I hear you on the warranty claim thing, however I have had customers that
have not gone anywhere else. They come to me for any issues they have, so
even if it wasn't under warranty it would still be me that would be
replacing the engine. I just haven't experienced it. That doesn't mean it
isn't a possibility, just means that I have yet to experience any long term
negative effects. I'll let you know what I find after the next 15 years :-)
Thanks,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>wrote:
> This is one of those things were you won't know there is a problem unless
> you specifically test for it. The cylinder bases should seal fairly well
> even without that O-ring but it is there for a reason. Antifreeze in the
> oil
> does damage long before it becomes visible. Small amounts of water will
> boil
> off but the glycol stays behind to become corrosive and attack the
> bearings.
> I am sure that some of the head gasket jobs have needed engine replacements
> even many years later. Have any been looked at for antifreeze damage? Oil
> testing after any major engine work is now routine for me.
>
> As for them never coming back I have found over the years that unless there
> is a possibility of warranty coverage it is common for Vanagon owners to go
> elsewhere when things go wrong. Often nothing is said. I've been involved
> even with warranty jobs from engine suppliers where the original work was
> done by someone else. All of us have seen work done by others that needed
> to
> be redone.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> kenneth wilford (Van-Again)
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:55 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Changing the Black O Ring On a Cylnder Sleeve...
>
> Been doing these for 15 years. Hundreds of vans at this point. Never
> changed the black o-ring when doing a head gasket job. Never had a
> problem.
> I have had long term customers so I know it didn't fail even years later.
> The green o-ring is sitting in coolant and the corrosion that is going on
> at
> the top of the cylinder. The lower one is sitting in oil and helping seal
> that side of things. The only thing I can think is that the oil bath is
> keeping the o-ring nice and happy, while the coolant bath is killing
> it/trapping it inside a crusty shell of corrosion. Or that the bottom of
> the cylinder pushing against the case is really the seal and the o-ring is
> just there because an engineer thought it was a good idea. I mean are the
> top green ones actually doing anything? They are so hard, crusty, and
> crushed into the same plane as the groove it is hard to imagine that they
> are. I think the metal head gasket is sealing the top of the cylinder and
> the cylinder pressing against the case is sealing the lower part. But that
> is just my opinion and I don't have any proof.
>
> If I were going to pull the pistons and re-ring the engine every time I did
> a head gasket repair, I would also be splitting the case and doing a full
> on
> rebuild. The rings and pistons are the biggest pain in the butt part of
> that anyway.
>
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:36 AM, J Stewart <fonman4277@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Dennis, What you say makes perfect sense, in fact last night I
> > carefully dug the green O ring out of the top of each sleeve, they
> > were very hard and came out in little chunks. The (perhaps) misleading
> > thing is there is a video at Ben's Place showing him installing the
> > black O rings on sleeves that are already on the pistons and on the
> > engine, but the engine is out of the van and on a stand and turned
> > sideways. My best guess, without asking him, is that he forgot to put
> them
> on and had already removed the old ones.
> > Because, from what I saw last night, there is NO WAY one could slide
> > the sleeve out far enough to remove the old O ring (which will no
> > doubt will be as brittle as the green ones) A couple of people have
> > told me they don't change the the black O ring and haven't had a
> > problem, but I'm sure it is a roll of the dice not to do it. Now, the
> > sleeve on #1 is firmly stuck and won't budge, #2 stuck to the head and
> > was pulled away about 3/4 of inch before I was able to separate it. I
> > wouldn't be so concerned if both sleeves were stuck like # 1 is. I had
> > not planned to get as involved in this, pulling the sleeves, etc, and
> > perhaps even pulling the engine-but I've had many projects over the
> > years (especially on VW's) that ended up being a lot more involved
> > than I originally planned on! I have limited time to work on it each
> > week, and hoped to have it done by time Everybus rolls around in
> > April. Jeff Stewart ----- Original Message -----
> > > The cylinder base o-ring is at least as old as the head gasket that
> > > failed causing you to go there in the first place. If no sign of
> > > ever been overheated and you feel lucky leave them in place.
> > > Otherwise, pull the pistons so you can also check the rings, The
> > > pistons should really be placed back into the cylinders from the top
> > > which means you need to address the carbon ring. If you don't
> > > replace the rings have the oil tested after about 1,000 miles to
> > > make sure no antifreeze is getting by.
> > > Dennis
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > Behalf Of J Stewart
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:05 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Changing the Black O Ring On a Cylnder Sleeve...
> > > I'm guessing impossible without pulling the sleeve all the off the
> > > piston. I tried it on my spare engine, on #2 (#1 sleeve is already
> > > off) and by the time I pulled the sleeve out far enough the lowest
> > > ring had popped out. I tried this before doing on my engine that is
> > > still in the van with the right head off. I've heard differing
> > > opinions about the need to replace that O ring. Thoughts? Personal
> > > experiences? I'd love to hear them! Thanks!!
> > > Jeff Stewart
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
>
>
--
Thanks,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
| 
