Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 14:00:42 -0500
Reply-To: Derek Drew <derekdrew@DEREKMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Derek Drew <derekdrew@DEREKMAIL.COM>
Subject: Trans Bentley Torque Mistakes, Torque XLS Tool I Made, Peloquins,
Differentials, Tools
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
(Resend to see if I can get the HTML out for some users who requested this.)
The subject of this post is a torque value conversion tool I made,
definitive differential friction torque specs, corrections to several
mistakes in Bentley, some (luxury and probably impractical) torque
friction spec checking tool options, and content about the procedure
to install a Peloquin differential without losing your mind.
=================================
TORQUE VALUES CONVERSION / CONVERTER TOOL
(with XLS Calculator)
=================================
I have prepared a torque value conversion utility tool that would be
impractical to make on your own because of excessive googling and
cross checking time.
The revised tool is here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8sxgRMrur9XYklMOHlSa2h0Ync/edit?usp=sharing
(DOWNLOAD it to your PC and then use Excel to manage it). You have to
look to find the download link.
Entering values in any one of cells B3 to B19 allows you to read out
the calculated result value in the adjacent cells to the right, and
enables translation between any of these values.
The utility converts any direction between these values:
Entering values in any one of cells B3 to B19 allows you to read out
the calculated result value in the adjacent cells to the right, and
enables translation between any of these values.
AMERICAN SIZES
Foot Lbs
Inch Lbs
CURRENT EUROPEAN TORQUE VALUES
NM
NCM
OBSOLETE TORQUE VALUES (the ones in the little list of six here are the same)
Kgm, Kilogram Meters, KGFM, Mkg, MKP ,MKGS,
OBSOLETE TORQUE VALUES (the ones in the little list of seven here are the same)
CMKG, KGFCM, kg-cm, Kilogram Centimeter, CmKp, KPCM,
Kilopond Centimeter
Converting between current metric values and obsolete European values
is achieved with 0.98 conversion factor, although the position of the
decimal point varies depending on which of the two groups of items
above you are converting from/to.
The xls conversion utility that I posted is also available from the
syncro list here:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Syncro/files/software%20tools/
You can also get the conversion utility (that I made) at the
"Software Tools" section of
this: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Syncro/files
Here is a preview of what the calculator looks like with an arbitrary
value of 100 input into the entry cells:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ehczUqyPT9A/UwjANdaUJvI/AAAAAAACTBE/y25aQTFLmrk/s0/Converter%2520Photo.jpg
You might be able to use that screen shot above alone without
downloading the xls but the xls will be more elegant and accurate.
The xls calculator calculates many numbers beyond 10 digits, although
for display purposes they are shown with some rounding. The rounding
can be turned off, but I don't think anybody will ever really want to do that.
===================================
A NOTE ABOUT PHOTO SIZES IN GOOGLE
===================================
You might want to view some photos at larger size. Here is how to do that:
VIEWING PHOTOS AT LARGER SIZE (or downloading)
The photos at
https://picasaweb.google.com/111803335891651546087/DifferentialFrictionVW?noredirect=1
by default are rendered in smaller size than is ideal in some cases.
Here is how to make them easier to read, or to make them larger for printing:
Either download the photos with the DOWNLOAD menu item or use the
browser URL hacking method.... right-click the photo and then click
"open image in new tab" and then find the s indicator in the URL and
change the value (example s912 or s2103) that begins with an s to 0
(example /s0/ ) and hit enter. Hit enter again if you wish. DO NOT
just right click and SAVE AS the initial smaller size photos or the
picture quality will be degraded.
===================================
KEY ALBUM ON DIFFERENTIAL FRICTION
===================================
The album from which that photo comes is here and some of the
information there may be useful to you:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111803335891651546087/DifferentialFrictionVW?noredirect=1
======================================
DIFFERENTIAL FRICTION ERROR IN BENTLEY
======================================
The following Bentley page has an error where they render 7 inch lbs
improperly to a value of 18.2 inch lbs:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OTO-3jUZcgU/Uv5b0Fw0K-I/AAAAAAACSQk/kMS0roTfr64/s0/Pre%2520Load%2520Page%25201.jpg
Other manual pages that do not contain that error include:
Vanagon Bentley page 39.13
Vanagon Bentley page 39.27
VW Bus Bentley page 53
094 Trans (European manual) 1986, page 130
All of these pages are shown at
https://picasaweb.google.com/111803335891651546087/DifferentialFrictionVW?noredirect=1
For the record, here are the corrected values for differential
friction torque for all vehicles.
=====================================================
DIFFERENTIAL FRICTION
FINAL CORRECTED VALUES for VW 091 / 094 differentials
=====================================================
NCM (new bearings) LOWEST
2 Foot Lbs
27 Inch Lbs
3 NM
300 NCM
0.3 Kgm or Kilogram Meters or KGFM or Mkg or MKP or MKGS
31 CMKG or KGFCM or kg-cm or Kilogram Centimeter or CmKp or KPCM
or Kilopond Centimeter
NCM (new bearings) HIGHEST
3 Foot Lbs
31 Inch Lbs
4 NM
350 NCM
0.4 Kgm or Kilogram Meters or KGFM or Mkg or MKP or MKGS
36 CMKG or KGFCM or kg-cm or Kilogram Centimeter or CmKp or KPCM
or Kilopond Centimeter
NCM (used bearings) LOWEST
0.2 Foot Lbs
3 Inch Lbs
0.3 NM
0.3 NCM
0.03 Kgm or Kilogram Meters or KGFM or Mkg or MKP or MKGS
3 CMKG or KGFCM or kg-cm or Kilogram Centimeter or CmKp or KPCM
or Kilopond Centimeter
NCM (used bearings) HIGHEST
0.5 Foot Lbs
6 Inch Lbs
1 NM
70 NCM
0.1 Kgm or Kilogram Meters or KGFM or Mkg or MKP or MKGS
7 CMKG or KGFCM or kg-cm or Kilogram Centimeter or CmKp or KPCM
or Kilopond Centimeter
VW is very sloppy and inconsistent when doing conversions from the
european values to other values, as though they gave that job to a
junior person or somebody who was being retired for bad work.
Sometimes they used only two rounded digits to do the conversions,
other times just did the math wrong, or rounded the result, or
skipped rounding the result. Looking at all the pages together and
using 10 digit conversion values shows all the flaws.
=============
TOOL OPTIONS
=============
Lastly, very few users will have access to the VLC 547 tool that
Bentley shows (otherwise called a US1064), but a variety of other
friction force wrenches are available.
Paul Guard reports that he didn't prefer the action of the VLC 547
and used a more traditional-looking short torque wrench.
In addition, the following other wrenches are differential friction wrenches:
VLC 547 Gauge = US1064 = VAS 6222 = Stahlwille 73Nm/15 Friction Gauge
= ASE 465 920 00 000 = "ASE 46592000000"
Some of these other wrenches are designed to smooth out the force
better than the VLC 547. The VAS 6222 is a VW OEM wrench.
There are pictures of some of these tools at
https://picasaweb.google.com/111803335891651546087/DifferentialFrictionVW?noredirect=1
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EEIYSw3vB-0/Uv1FFGQbskI/AAAAAAACSXc/fS2Lg-j4xmQ/s0/VAG%2520VAS%25206222.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pjGEAlz5iVY/Uv1GsUWxVFI/AAAAAAACSXc/GKPUkV1OmO0/s500/Stahlwille%2520Friction%2520Gauge.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QANx5yXZUtw/Uv1FeHegO-I/AAAAAAACSXc/TdMolS9xTGY/s912/Red_torque_wrenchC.jpg
===================================================
WHEN INSTALLING PELOQUIN DIFFERENTIALS
FINDING S TOTAL BEFORE PUTTING RING GEAR ON
=========================================
My guess is that most people will not want to remove their pinion
shafts in order to do the differential friction measurement (to find S TOTAL).
These people will then be advised to find out the total of S1 and S2
(S total screw in depth) first BEFORE installing the ring gear onto
the Peloquin differential. !!!!!!!!!!!
Without a reminder or suggestion from you to do it this way, my guess
is that many people will put the ring gear on first and then be in a
quandary about whether to be lazy and skip finding S Total or whether
to remove the ring gear from the Peloquin differential and reinstall
it, a needless torture or temptation if they know to do the test first.
===================================
ADDITIONAL BENTLEY VALUE MISTAKES
===================================
Additional mistakes of this nature in Bentley are documented here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111803335891651546087/VWBentleyManualMistakes?noredirect=1
Be sure to see the notes to those photos for details. (180 inch lbs
given where they really meant 19 inch lbs.)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3F4rjoLTFVE/Uwfjmuwax7I/AAAAAAACS18/wB3D--COEJs/s0/20140213_163249.jpg
These wrong values are supplied in your Bentley pages 35.27, 35.57,
and 35.89 so consider grabbing the book now and marking the correct
values in there with a pen (so the next guy who uses that book --
your son????-- doesn't boob something). Or, print out this post and
put it into the book in one of those pages and make a cross reference.
Here below is a corrected Bentley page with good values here:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vEgw6fYxEFw/Uv1COdq_xbI/AAAAAAACSKs/aOsHfw01xno/s0/20140213_170749.jpg
Correct Bentley pages are: 35.123 and 39.41.
=============
X Posting Notice
=============
Due to the nature of this post being a post of record, I have cross
posted it to Samba and if somebody finds an error with what I have
said here then it is unpredictable whether the error will be
highlighted here on Vanagon email list or whether it will be
highlighted at Samba.
Accordingly, if you are interested in this topic (which is very
unlikely unless you have lost your mind) then you could also check
here for any further content about it:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568039&start=80
The link I just gave also displays some of the pretty pictures
automatically, which is a nice touch instead of having to wear out
your finger clicking on all these links.
_______________________________________________
Derek Drew
Washington DC / New York
derekdrew@derekmail.com
Email is best normally but...
PHONE: 202-966-7907 (Call the number at left normally)
(alt/cell for diligent calling only): 703-408-1532