Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 23:23:42 -0400
Reply-To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: STRANDED
In-Reply-To: <003001cf4e83$ebf332a0$c3d997e0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Actually, Mark Drillock called it and called it well from long distance.
Nice job. Here's what I wrote to Mark this morning:
"I thought that was just going back to the alternator. The stud for the
battery cable and that red wire is damaged and while I was under the van
struggling, I had to leave that off. I'm kicking myself now, especially in
light that I was going to tape that thing on this morning. Never had to
deal with that nor trace that red wire so I was clueless about it. Just
like my dad always said, "don't assume, you make an ass out of you...."
Thanks for seeing the big picture on that one, again, good call by Mark.
I have not gotten back to the van (yet) but since it was running fine and I
failed to hook up the "other" small red wire (that also powers a bunch of
stuff), I'm fairly certain, I was my own worst enemy. I thought I could
just bypass the alternator just long enough to get it started and back to
temporary lodging.
So much for "thinking"...
As for the original issue (the "sudden stop"). I learned something more
about Optima batteries. I'm a firm advocate of them as I've had really
good luck with them in many vehicles, they mount in any position. don't
leak, charge fast, and provide a good shot of juice. It seems that they
will run (in my case with no charging) and run right up to the point of
"dead". THAT was the reason I had no 4-ways but the relay was clicking and
the green turn indicator was solid when the key was turned. It really threw
me for a loop.
As for my bad luck. It happens. Luckily, no one was in the house when it
happened. The kitchen is gutted and the smoke damage is extensive. We
found a new place but moving (as always) is the pits. Once the van went
down, aside from all the griping from a certain woman... it put things on
hold at a very bad time AND left us all walking.
Thanks to all for the advice and offers of help, parts, and well wishes.
Now, it's time to go get dirty and straighten up plastic end cap on the
bumper I vented my frustration on. I kicked the $h!% out of that thing.
TJ
From: *mark drillock* <mdrillock@cox.net>
Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM
To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>, vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
One of the connections at the starter is a red wire that goes on the same
stud as the big battery cable. This smaller red wire carries battery power
to the engine compartment for the fuel injection to use during starting.
Without this other connection at the starter the key will work, the engine
will crank, but the fuel pump and injection system won't have power.
The other end of that red wire goes to the alternator wiring stud where it
joins another red wire that carries the battery power to the engine
compartment wiring box stud. From there a red goes to the fuel injection
relay box through the 2 pin connector that plugs on the front side of the
box. Make sure that connector is firmly plugged it. If you have a voltmeter
open the engine wiring box in the front left corner and measure the voltage
on the metal stud with red wires held under a nut. That stud should have 12
volts at all times, maybe dropping to about 10 during cranking.
Mark
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Andrew Martin <ramblinvan@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mark Drillock may be on to something...
>
> I cannot help diagnose from afar but if you decide it is the ECU I can ship
> you a known good one. Same for a good used coil, fuel pump relays,
> distributor, whatever!
>
> Send me your mailing/shipping address and I will get it to you by Priority
> Mail.
>
> Andrew
> Bainbridge Island WA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> TJ Hemrick
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 5:37 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Fwd: STRANDED
>
> So, I found a willing volunteer to crank the engine over and I have NO
> spark
> at all. Checked all the connections but either the coil is dead or
> something somewhere that drives it is not doing it's job.
>
>
> From: *TJ Hemrick* <x53gunner@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 4:51 PM
> To: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
>
>
> All,
> As if losing most of what we own from a house fire last Tuesday wasn't
> enough, now my transportation has come to a dead stop. 87 automatic, had
> some starting issues which (now) I see Kay have been some loose connections
> at the starter AND a broken wire (which was probably just a few strands of
> copper most of the past 2 weeks. Anyhow, I was idling, shifted to R AMD the
> engine went dead stop. No power to 4-ways or anything else. Lights on dash
> DO come on but so does the green turn indicator light and it's on steady if
> the key is turned. Very weird. Relay 21 on the panel cycles about every 10
> seconds with the ignition off and not at all with the key turned. Any
> hidden fuses or fusible links I might be overlooking? All other fuses look
> good but I'll check again. Never been stuck this bad and no clues.
>
> ----------
> From: *thewestyman* <zolo@foxinternet.net>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 5:32 PM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>
>
>
> Is your gear change handle in the good position? Move it a little in Park
> to make better connection with the switch.
> More I can't tell now.
> Z
>
> -----Original Message----- From: TJ Hemrick
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 1:51 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: STRANDED
>
> ----------
> From: *JRodgers* <jrodgers113@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 6:00 PM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>, vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>
>
> Holy Cow, TJ!! Sorry to hear of all this. Hope all are OK.
>
> I'm not up on the automatics, so have no suggestions, but want to offer
> encouragement. There are Volks on this list that can help - and will - I'm
> sure.
>
> Best of luck to you!
>
> John
>
> ----------
> From: *Neil N* <musomuso@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 6:06 PM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>
> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>
>
> It looks like relay 21 is your "Emerg. flash/turn sig. relay".
>
> Try pulling it and see what happens.
>
> Your Vanagon is a 90 or 91 ?
>
> @ the list.
>
> This is a far fetched suggestion, but if the flasher relay were shorting
> out
> could 15 power to the relay be getting shorted to ground thus killing the
> ignition?
>
>
>
> On 4/1/14, TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com> wrote:
> >.....Anyhow, I was idling, shifted to R AMD the
> --
> Neil n
>
> Blog: tubaneil.blogspot.ca
>
> '88 Westy http://tinyurl.com/c8rlw6p
>
> '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>
> Vanagon VAG *Gas* inline-VR Engine Swap Group:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/d7gd5ej
>
> ----------
> From: *kenneth wilford (Van-Again)* <kenwilfy@comcast.net>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 6:24 PM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>
> Cc: Vanagon List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
>
>
> It sounds like a ground problem. Check the battery connections to be sure
> they are good, then check the ground connections behind the fuse panel.
>
> Sorry to hear about your problems. Hope things start looking up for you
> folks.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
>
> ----------
> From: *TJ Hemrick* <x53gunner@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 6:36 PM
> To: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
>
>
> Oh, I forgot, all the grounds are good, no fuel pump when I turn the key or
> the idle solenoid either.
>
> ----------
> From: *mark drillock* <mdrillock@cox.net>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 7:01 PM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>, vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>
>
> Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Some of the van symptoms are probably not
> related to the main failure. I would focus on the issue at hand which is
> the
> fuel pump not cycling for a second or 2 when the key is turned on. That
> would be my main concern.
>
> The 4-ways are probably still partially switched on and that is making the
> turn indicator be on and the flasher rely click. Try rocking the 4-way
> switch solidly back and forth on/off 5 or 6 times and see if that changes
> the indicator status. The internal switch contacts tends to get flaky from
> disuse. Hope it is that simple.
>
> If you want step by step help in tracking down the running problem just
> ask.
> A volt meter will come in handy.
>
> Mark
>
> TJ Hemrick wrote:
>
> > Oh, I forgot, all the grounds are good, no fuel pump when I turn the
> > key or the idle solenoid either.
> > On Apr 1, 2014 4:51 PM, "TJ Hemrick" <x53gunner@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> ----------
> From: *TJ Hemrick* <x53gunner@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 7:32 PM
> To: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
>
>
> So, I fix (temp) the connections @ the starter, jump the battery and all
> she
> does is turn over, & over, & over. No start. New cap and rotor too.
> I don't have a helper to spin it over while I check for spark. Oh well....
> That's that.
> On Apr 1, 2014 4:51 PM, "TJ Hemrick" <x53gunner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > All,
> > As if losing most of what we own from a house fire last Tuesday
> > wasn't enough, now my transportation has come to a dead stop. 87
> > automatic, had some starting issues which (now) I see Kay have been
> > some loose connections at the starter AND a broken wire (which was
> > probably just a few strands of copper most of the past 2 weeks.
> > Anyhow, I was idling, shifted to R AMD the engine went dead stop. No
> > power to 4-ways or anything else. Lights on dash DO come on but so
> > does the green turn indicator light and it's on steady if the key is
> > turned. Very weird. Relay 21 on the panel cycles about every 10
> > seconds with the ignition off and not at all with the key turned. Any
> > hidden fuses or fusible links I might be overlooking? All other fuses
> look good but I'll check again. Never been stuck this bad and no clues.
> >
>
> ----------
> From: *mark drillock* <mdrillock@cox.net>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>, vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>
>
> One of the connections at the starter is a red wire that goes on the same
> stud as the big battery cable. This smaller red wire carries battery power
> to the engine compartment for the fuel injection to use during starting.
>
> Without this other connection at the starter the key will work, the engine
> will crank, but the fuel pump and injection system won't have power.
>
> The other end of that red wire goes to the alternator wiring stud where it
> joins another red wire that carries the battery power to the engine
> compartment wiring box stud. From there a red goes to the fuel injection
> relay box through the 2 pin connector that plugs on the front side of the
> box. Make sure that connector is firmly plugged it. If you have a voltmeter
> open the engine wiring box in the front left corner and measure the voltage
> on the metal stud with red wires held under a nut. That stud should have 12
> volts at all times, maybe dropping to about 10 during cranking.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Mark
> TJ Hemrick wrote:
>
> > So, I fix (temp) the connections @ the starter, jump the battery and
> > all she does is turn over, & over, & over. No start. New cap and rotor
> too.
> > I don't have a helper to spin it over while I check for spark. Oh
> > well.... That's that.
> > On Apr 1, 2014 4:51 PM, "TJ Hemrick" <x53gunner@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> ----------
> From: *kenneth wilford (Van-Again)* <kenwilfy@comcast.net>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:02 PM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>
>
>
> Check the wires that plug onto the coil. The black one can become loose
> and
> cause the van to die and not restart.
>
> Also that double plug at the firewall behind to air box that supplies the
> fuel pump can also get sketchy if the connections are corroded.
>
> Ken
> On Apr 1, 2014 4:51 PM, "TJ Hemrick" <x53gunner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ----------
> From: *TCollins* <tonycollin@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:03 PM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>
> Cc: "vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM" <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
>
>
> TJ
>
> I too am sorry to hear about your troubles and I am sending good vibes your
> way. Have you considered any connection issues with the selector level
> switch on the gear selector housing?
>
> I know that with the autos if not on park or neutral it won't start. If the
> lever adjustment is off then you could get artifacts like this. I'm
> guessing
> at this since it died on you while switching from reverse.
>
> I hope this helps,
> T.
>
> > On Apr 1, 2014, at 7:32 PM, TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > So, I fix (temp) the connections @ the starter, jump the battery and
> > all she does is turn over, & over, & over. No start. New cap and rotor
> too.
> > I don't have a helper to spin it over while I check for spark. Oh
> > well.... That's that.
>
>
> ----------
> From: *Alistair Bell* <albell@shaw.ca>
> Date: Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:44 AM
> To: TJ Hemrick <x53gunner@gmail.com>
>
>
> Tim,
>
> I'm truly sorry to hear of the run of bad luck.
>
> About the van, maybe a thought to the D15 connector on the fuse panel. Got
> a
> blog post here
>
> http://shufti.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/vanagon-d15-connector-issue/
>
> Cheers
>
> Alistair
>
>
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