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Date:         Thu, 22 May 2014 14:30:45 -0500
Reply-To:     mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject:      Re: Where do you get your coolant?
Comments: To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <55oM1o00N0wmlcH015oRwb>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Ok. But I still wonder about the No Rosion, even though I will not be using it. The reason for phosphate (phosphoric acid) in coolant is as a buffer. As a "tribasic" acid, it has three available hydrogen ions for buffering. Works wonderfully well. Perchance, does No Rosion contain phosphate as the buffering agent? Again, I have no reason to use it, I just am curious about its chemistry. mcneely

---- Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote: > That's all you need, I just hate changing the coolant on a Vanagon any more often than necessary. > > Water purity is a whole different topic. In my lab days the purest water was R/O followed by ion exchange. Only a few parts per billion of stuff other than H2O left after that treatment. > > No Rosion is simply a buffering system to keep acids and dissolved oxygen neutralized. It was developed primarily for industrial applications and that's still its major market. > > Race cars can use plain water, it has the best heat transfer when used with a properly sized radiator, and No Rosion or other buffers are added to inhibit corrosion. Regular cars need to elevate the coolant boiling point using both pressure and a solution of 50% ethylene glycol. > > There is certainly no need to overcomplicate this, just change the coolant every two years and use phosphate free brands. No-Rosion is expensive to use in the high capacity Vanagon system anyway. > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:08 AM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Stuart MacMillan > Subject: Re: [VANAGON] Where do you get your coolant? > > ---- Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > According to everything I've read, yes you can as long as they are all > > phosphate free. As I mentioned before, Go Westy agrees, and they warrant > > their remanufactured engines for 48 months. They also require bi-annual > > coolant changes to keep the warranty in force. > > > > Just be sure to stick with ethylene glycol based antifreeze, don't mix the > > propylene glycol versions (less toxic, but doesn't transfer heat quite as > > well). > > > > If you want to extend the life of standard coolant No-Rosion is a good > > product. I've used it for years in my MGBs and Vanagons. > > http://www.no-rosion.com/norosioncoolant.htm > > > According to everything I've read, nothing is needed in the cooling system except water and coolant. Anything else is said to increase the likelihood of damage to a cooling system. Does this product list its ingredients anywhere? I looked at their web pages, including the one labeled "Technical Information." There was no technical information provided, or at least no full disclosure description of the product. Instead, there were FAQ type product promotions. > > Something odd to me as a scientist was presented, however. The site claimed that since "reverse osmosis does not 'strip' impurities from water," reverse osmosis purified water is preferable over distilled water, which was claimed to "strip" impurities from water, and would therefore promote "stripping" of electrons from cooling system metals. Of course, what matters is the purity of the water, and the specific impurities present. All purified water, unless produced in a very high tech laboratory, contains some impurities. > > There is a lot more to this matter than can be included or discussed here. But this business of "stripping" impurities suggested a red flag to me, with regards to how much correct information the company is providing. > > > > > > They also have a test kit so you can tell when you need to change your > > coolant. > > > > Stuart > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > > Jeff Palmer > > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 7:26 AM > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > Subject: Re: Where do you get your coolant? > > > > I've been using VW Blue Gold as long as I've owned the van but am open to > > equivalents. Can i top up my van with Xerex for example or do i have to > > completely flush and refill with the new coolant? > > > > Thanks > > Jeff > > > > On 2014-05-17, at 8:34 AM, Dave Mcneely wrote: > > > > > You are welcome. Another poster followed up with a photo of the bottle > > label from the yellow bottle PEL (regular, not diluted). It states to be > > phosphate free. That is true of Zerex long life coolant also. I use Zerex, > > which states on the bottle to be phosphate free, and it is yellow. > > > > > > ---- Frank Condelli <RAlanen@AOL.COM> wrote: > > >> McNeely, thanks for this VERY good information ! > > >> > > >> Frank > > >> > > >> > > >> On May 16, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Automatic digest processor > > <LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hmmm ..... . Hard to know what is going on here. I found this on > > Prestone= > > >>> 's web site: > > >>> > > >>> "Q: Does Prestone=C2=AE Antifreeze/Coolant contain phosphates? > > >>> A: Some European automobile manufacturers request that a phosphate-free > > ant= > > >>> ifreeze be used in their vehicles. This issue is related to the > > extremely h= > > >>> igh mineral content of the water in Europe. If you were to mix an > > antifreez= > > >>> e that contained phosphates with the type of water they have in Europe, > > it = > > >>> may produce deposits that can settle in the cooling system and promote > > corr= > > >>> osion. However, in North America we do not have this type of water > > problem.= > > >>> Typical North American coolants have contained phosphates (which is part > > o= > > >>> f the corrosion inhibitor package) for many years. Therefore, the > > question = > > >>> of phosphates is a non-issue here in North America. Prestone=C2=AE > > Antifree= > > >>> ze/Coolant is completely safe for use in both foreign and domestic > > vehicles= > > >>> . For those consumers who would feel more comfortable using a > > phosphate-fre= > > >>> e antifreeze, our Prestone=C2=AE LongLife=C2=AE Premixed > > Antifreeze/Coolant= > > >>> and Prestone=C2=AE Dex-Cool=C2=AE Premixed LongLife=C2=AE Antifreeze/ > > Cool= > > >>> ant formula=E2=80=99s are phosphate, silicate, and borate free. These > > coola= > > >>> nts use a special chemistry and technology that extends the life of the > > cor= > > >>> rosion inhibitor package so that it lasts for five years or 240,000 kms > > (wh= > > >>> ichever comes first), and is safe for all cars and light trucks (old or > > new= > > >>> ). Prestone=C2=AE Dex-Cool=C2=AE Premixed LongLife=C2=AE Antifreeze/ > > Coola= > > >>> nt has been approved by General Motors under their DEX-COOL=C2=AE > > specifica= > > >>> tions and is compatible with other DEX-COOL=C2=AE approved coolants. > > >>> * DEX-COOL=C2=AE is a registered trademark of General Motors > > Corporation." > > >>> > > >>> http://prestone.com/products/antifreeze_coolant/product_list > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> The product mentioned in the answer to the question is shown in a yellow > > bo= > > >>> ttle. Whether it is a diluted form of the Prestone Extended Life > > Antifreez= > > >>> e/Coolant also in a yellow bottle is not clear, as is whether that > > product = > > >>> is phosphate free (based on product descriptions on the Preston web > > site). = > > >>> I would not trust any product to be phosphate free unless the > > manufacturer= > > >>> made the claim that it was in print. > > >>> > > >>> As to there being high phospate waters in Europe but not in the U.S., > > that = > > >>> is simply not true. There are lots of water sources in the U.S. that > > are h= > > >>> igh phosphate, especially ones that receive agricultural or urban > > runoff. = > > >>> Most watersheds receive both. > > >>> > > >>> mcneely > > > > > > -- > > > David McNeely > > > > > -- > David McNeely >

-- David McNeely


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